# Was Jesus the son of a roman soldier **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521 "2013-10-06T18:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/21 "2013-10-07T07:59:44Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Qin, this isn’t your first exposure to kanicbird’s rather exotic version of Christian faith, is it? Not at all… > [@](#): > > Answer to the OP, I don’t think so, but it certainly is an ancient tradition, possibly 3rd generation since Jesus. > > [Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Iulius_Abdes_Pantera) _Insert joke about Panera Bread_ ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/22 "2013-10-07T13:54:29Z")
According to Cecil Adams: > [@](#): > > The Talmud, a collection of Jewish writings, also refers to Christ, although it says he was the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier called Panther. > **[Did Jesus really exist? And what’s with the Shroud of Turin?](https://www.straightdope.com/21341693/did-jesus-really-exist-and-what-s-with-the-shroud-of-turin)** ---
**Author:** ![Longshanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Longshanks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Longshanks)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/23 "2013-10-07T15:59:41Z")
I can’t say with any certainty since I wasn’t around 2,000 years ago but it doesn’t seem all that far fetched for his dad to have been a roman soldier. If he actually existed then he needed to have a mother and father and roman soldiers were always in Judea putting down rebellions. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/24 "2013-10-07T16:09:18Z")
“I’m puttin’ down rebellions like a mother…” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/25 "2013-10-07T16:40:17Z")
BTW, no one say “Pantera - band name” [Already taken.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPantera&ei=vONSUs3TF4qMyQHL3YDYDw&usg=AFQjCNHL-ivraq2jRc7RWvlQ6Q5mOuDC5A&bvm=bv.53537100,d.aWc) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/26 "2013-10-07T16:58:10Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Interesting, I’d never heard of this. So, was this actually what the Pythons were going for, or is the analogous lineage of Brian just a coincidence? I’d say the former. Very erudite, the Pythonians. When Brian claims Roman citizenship to get out of trouble, they’re riffing on all the times St. Paul did that in the Book of Acts. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/27 "2013-10-07T20:03:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Yeah, son of Naughtius Maximus. 'E’s not the messiah, 'e’s a very naughty boy! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/28 "2013-10-08T00:02:41Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > No convincing evidence. But a legitimate scholar, James Tabor of the University of North Carolina, argues for it in the book _The Jesus Dynasty_. Tabor’s a FOAF, which automatically makes anything I say he says suspect. 😉 I understand he’s interesting and fun, but with a one-track mind. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/29 "2013-10-08T12:09:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Tabor’s a FOAF, which automatically makes anything I say he says suspect. 😉 I understand he’s interesting and fun, but with a one-track mind. Interesting, Tabor had been a Christian with membership in branch of the Armstrongist Worldwide Church of God. His mentor Ernest L. Martin had some very interesting interpretations (the 4 BC date of Herod’s death was early by two years, Christ’s September birth is laid out in His horoscope of Revelation 12, the Crucifixion was on Mt. Olivet as Jesus’s crossbeam was hoisted onto a living tree to which his feet were nailed) and inspired Tabor to do a whole new Bible translation, which is still in progress. I think Tabor identifies himself as a Noachide & sees John the Baptist, Jesus, & James the Just as members of a Messianic tradition which may continue until the actual Messiah comes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/30 "2013-10-08T14:20:57Z")
**Is** it heretical, anyway, to say Jesus’ father was someone other than God? After all, in Jewish prophecy and tradition, the Messiah is **not** the Son of God, not the way Herakles is the son of Zeus. He’ll be **called** the Son of God, but that’s just a title the ancient kings of Israel used, it only means “chosen of God” or “favored of God.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/31 "2013-10-08T14:49:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Is** it heretical, anyway, to say Jesus’ father was someone other than God? After all, in Jewish prophecy and tradition, the Messiah is **not** the Son of God, not the way Herakles is the son of Zeus. He’ll be **called** the Son of God, but that’s just a title the ancient kings of Israel used, it only means “chosen of God” or “favored of God.” Likewise, they will call his name Immanuel, even if his name is actually Jesus. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Longshanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Longshanks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Longshanks)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/32 "2013-10-08T19:22:18Z")
Well I assume that the people claiming him to not be the son of a god (like me) don’t really care what a religious group considers to be heretical or not. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/33 "2013-10-09T00:14:57Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Interesting, Tabor had been a Christian with membership in branch of the Armstrongist Worldwide Church of God. With Garner Ted Armstrong on vocals! But I can’t complain. The Millerites have been making theology entertaining for 170 years. 😉 > [@](#): > > His mentor Ernest L. Martin had some very interesting interpretations (the 4 BC date of Herod’s death was early by two years, Christ’s September birth is laid out in His horoscope of Revelation 12, the Crucifixion was on Mt. Olivet as Jesus’s crossbeam was hoisted onto a living tree to which his feet were nailed) and inspired Tabor to do a whole new Bible translation, which is still in progress. I think Tabor identifies himself as a Noachide & sees John the Baptist, Jesus, & James the Just as members of a Messianic tradition which may continue until the actual Messiah comes. Interesting, but heretical! I sometimes miss the Good Ol’ Days of Catholicism when we could simplify theology by burning annoying people like that at the stake. 😃 Chief Inquisitor: Your Holiness, I request your permission to torture Ernest L. Martin until he recants. Pope: Is there a specific reason, my son? Chief Inquisitor: Yeah, he annoys the shit out of me. Pope: Permission granted. Go in peace. However, I have been enjoying the theological, philological, and archaeological twists and turns Tabor and his pals have been putting us through the past few years. Endless opportunities for recreational outrage. Keeps the heart pumping. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/34 "2013-10-11T21:39:00Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Interesting, I’d never heard of this. So, was this actually what the Pythons were going for, or is the analogous lineage of Brian just a coincidence? I think it’s a reference to St Paul, who claimed to be “a Hebrew born of Hebrews”, but when put on trial asserted his rights as a Roman. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/35 "2013-10-11T21:45:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > BTW, no one say “Pantera - band name” > [Already taken.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPantera&ei=vONSUs3TF4qMyQHL3YDYDw&usg=AFQjCNHL-ivraq2jRc7RWvlQ6Q5mOuDC5A&bvm=bv.53537100,d.aWc) And Ye, Jesus said unto Judas, ‘I’ve got more friends like you, what do I do. Is there no standard anymore’. Matthew 14:24-27 ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/36 "2013-10-11T22:08:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Likewise, they will call his name Immanuel, even if his name is actually Jesus. Or something. I thought they called him Mr. Tibbs. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521/37 "2013-10-11T22:47:25Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > I thought they called him Mr. Tibbs. Some people called him Maurice, 'cause he spoke of the [pompatus](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/972/in-steve-millers-the-joker-what-is-the-pompatus-of-love) of love. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-the-son-of-a-roman-soldier/670521.md?page=1)