# Was JFK a donut? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618 "2001-08-09T16:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ephedra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/76d3ee/32.png) [@ephedra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ephedra)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/1 "2001-08-09T16:43:59Z")
I heard a comedy routine recently where the comedian claimed that JFK made a blunder when he tried to speak in German at the Berlin wall. He tried to say that he was citizen of Berlin (in the metaphorical sense I’m sure), but he wound up saying like “I am a donut” because was a local pastry named after the city ( a “Berliner” I think). Did this really happen? ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/2 "2001-08-09T16:47:02Z")
I am not aware of a pastry, but from my limited knowledge of german, _Ich bin ein Berliner_ sounds perfectly fine and makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/3 "2001-08-09T17:00:18Z")
Technically, yes, he did say “I am a pastry.” But, it’s the same as someone coming to New York City and declaring “I am a New Yorker.” Technically, that person declared themself to be an issue of a popular literary magazine. But you know what they mean, and it’s a perfectly legitimate, everyday expression. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/4 "2001-08-09T17:03:21Z")
He wasn’t just any old pastry, he was a jelly donut! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/5 "2001-08-09T17:06:24Z")
German does not use an article when you declare your nationality. Thus the correct phrase would be: Ich bin Berliner. “ein Berliner” would describe something called a “berliner” (a type of jelly donut), not a resident of Berlin. That said, it’s doubtful anyone in the audience thought “jelly donut” when Kennedy used the phrase. They knew what he meant, even if the grammar wasn’t correct. ---
**Author:** ![Perderabo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Perderabo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perderabo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/6 "2001-08-09T17:14:00Z")
Here are some links you might find interesting: [kennedy berliner quote](http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/kennedy_berliner_quote.html) [JFK: ‘I Am a Jelly Donut’](http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa021700a.htm) ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/7 "2001-08-09T17:15:08Z")
The -er ending in German is adjectival, a lot like “ish” in English. Using it with an article is what raises the question - “Ich bin EIN Berliner” instead of “Ich bin Berliner”. A better analog in English might be “I am Danish” as opposed to “I am a Danish”, which would make you sound like you were to be served with coffee. As already stated, everybody knew what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/8 "2001-08-09T17:20:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*German does not use an article when you declare your nationality. Thus the correct phrase would be: > > Ich bin Berliner. > > “ein Berliner” would describe something called a “berliner” (a type of jelly donut), not a resident of Berlin. > > That said, it’s doubtful anyone in the audience thought “jelly donut” when Kennedy used the phrase. They knew what he meant, even if the grammar wasn’t correct. \*\* This is more or less correct. In fact, the only people likely to misinterpret Kennedy’s statement (which was not even one he made about himself; in the context of the speech it was a reference to how the people of Berlin should be proud to say that they are Berliners) would be non-native German speakers. In textbook High German articles are not used in declarations of nationality, but they are used that way in other German dialects. Many native speakers would have chosen the exact same phrasing. What’s more, I think that particular kind of donut is only called a Berliner _outside_ Berlin, although I couldn’t swear to this. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/9 "2001-08-09T17:33:46Z")
[Homer] Ooh, forbidden donut! [/Homer] ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/10 "2001-08-09T21:48:55Z")
Did JFK goof? Yes, in the technical sense. Was it a serious error? Not really, as everyone knew what he REALLY meant. Still, you have to wonder- if Dan Quayle had made a similar minor gaffe, would he ever have lived it down? I doubt it. Kennedy was perceived (wrongly) as an intellectual, so people tended to ignore or shrug off his goofs. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2001, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/11 "2001-08-09T22:40:00Z")
Or, since Germany had (briefly)had a head of state named Donitz, maybe he thought that was the naming system. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2001, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/12 "2001-08-10T01:38:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*German does not use an article when you declare your nationality. Thus the correct phrase would be: > > Ich bin Berliner. > > “ein Berliner” would describe something called a “berliner” (a type of jelly donut), not a resident of Berlin. > > That said, it’s doubtful anyone in the audience thought “jelly donut” when Kennedy used the phrase. They knew what he meant, even if the grammar wasn’t correct. \*\* That is 100% correct. We learned this in German class. Yes, a Berliner is like a jelly donut, but isn’t quite. It’s a little different. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2001, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/13 "2001-08-10T01:51:09Z")
And accounts I’ve read (in the distant past - no cites) said this was a moment of huge applause, indicating that the audience understood his meaning (or, donuts got hands). ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2001, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/14 "2001-08-10T02:01:17Z")
**astorian** said [/quote] if Dan Quayle had made a similar minor gaffe, would he ever have lived it down? I doubt it. Kennedy was perceived (wrongly) as an intellectual [/quote] Or maybe Kennedy was perceived only as someone who could speak English. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/15 "2001-08-10T04:07:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Montfort \* > **[Homer] > Ooh, forbidden donut! > [/Homer]** More _Simpsons_ fun… Kennedy: Ich bein ein Berliner. Sailor: He’s a nazi! Get him! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2001, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/16 "2001-08-10T04:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\* > Still, you have to wonder- if Dan Quayle had made a similar minor gaffe, would he ever have lived it down? I doubt it. Kennedy was perceived (wrongly) as an intellectual, so people tended to ignore or shrug off his goofs. \*\* Interestingly, this particular story about Kennedy seems to have originated with a journalist who had just this in mind. Snopes used to have a page on this (it seems to be gone now), and it said that the fuss over “Ich bin ein Berliner” did not begin until the 1980s and was first brought up by those attempting to make Quayle look better by making Kennedy look worse. In the course of trying to dig up the missing Snopes page on this issue, I discovered that “Ich bin ein Berliner” may not have been even a “minor gaffe” but rather the _most_ correct phrasing Kennedy could have used in the circumstances. See here: [http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa021700b.htm?once=true&](http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa021700b.htm?once=true&) I found this confirmed by native German speakers elsewhere on the Web. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2001, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/17 "2001-08-10T04:59:54Z")
Good thing he wasn’t in Hamburg. ---
**Author:** ![Odeon\_Bypass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Odeon\_Bypass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odeon_Bypass)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2001, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/18 "2001-08-10T08:10:22Z")
…was Eddie Izzard. Just FYI. From “Dress to Kill” available on video. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/19 "2001-08-11T03:50:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Odeon Bypass \* > \*\*…was Eddie Izzard. Just FYI. From “Dress to Kill” available on video. \*\* Or on HBO, a couple of times every few months or so. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2001, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618/20 "2001-08-11T03:51:36Z")
Only a rabid Kennedy hater would say that Kennedy was not an intellectual (implying he is not educated, not that he isn’t Harold Bloom, as controasted to the one of two or three dozen real intellectuals in this country). Kennedy was extraordinarily well read, and rumor has it he was even a pretty good writer, having won a Pulitzer Prize for authoring “Profiles in Courage”. The fascist charge is that Kennedy merely took credit for writing this book, which they claim was written by Ted Sorensen, but this is more fascist propaganda, Kennedy wrote it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jfk-a-donut/75618.md?page=2)