# Was Jimmy Carter really a bad president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783 "2003-11-01T03:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/41 "2003-11-03T18:47:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > Yeah, what ever happened to the metric system? It sure was a good idea, and Carter deserves credit for the effort – but why wasn’t it successfully adopted here? [The Master speaks.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_013.html) > [@](#): > > Is this another example of Carter being “well-meaning” but “ineffectual”? Not sure, but I’ll bet Congress had a part in this one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/42 "2003-11-03T19:32:19Z")
"Hi, kids! I’m Troy McClure! You may remember me from such films as “Lead Paint: Delicious but Deadly,’ and ‘Here Comes the Metric System!’” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/43 "2003-11-03T19:47:47Z")
Part of the problem, IMHO, was that Carter tried to get the American people to change what they were doing: work more productively, switch to metric, conserve energy, vote, etc, etc… And the inference that people took from that message was that something must be wrong with America, otherwise why would we need to change? It’s no wonder that Reagan’s “Morning in America” theme, with its message of “We’re still America and everything’s okay – we can do whatever we want, because as Americans whatever we do will be right”, went over so well. Given the choice between acting more responsibly and just blaming Carter for everything, no points for guessing which one the majority went with. (It’s worth noting that the Onion picked up on this in their _Our Dumb Century_ book, asking which message would resonate better with voters: Carter’s “Let’s Talk Better Mileage” or Reagan’s “Kill the Bastards”.) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/44 "2003-11-03T20:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Specifically, we can blame them for trying to conquer Afghanistan Served them right. Talk about your endless headaches with no payoff. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/45 "2003-11-03T21:26:58Z")
toadspittle: > [@](#): > > Served them right. Talk about your endless headaches with no payoff. Hey, don’t knock it…it got them a lot of medals that they wouldn’t have otherwise won at the 1980 summer olympics! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/46 "2003-11-03T22:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mossberg \* > "During the first week of December, Executive Intelligence Review reported that Henry Kissinger 'held a series of meetings during the week of November 12 in Paris… For the sake of clarity, it must be noted that Executive Intelligence Review is Lyndon LaRouche’s publication. Other EIR “breaking news” stories have included accusations that Queen Elizabeth II is the biggest drug dealer in the world, and an analysis of how a network of railroads across Siberia is the key to future world economic growth. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/47 "2003-11-04T00:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Earlier in this thread NDP said “the words that describe Carter as a president are “well-meaning” and “ineffectual.””- this pretty much sums it up. The “malaise” speech is another good example of this, as (IMHO) Carter was trying to get the American people to take this as a challenge to do better. Instead it came off as insulting.\* > > \*(from what I remember- I was pretty young) Actually, according to polls taken right after the speech, Carter’s message about “malaise” was surprisingly well-received. Unfortunately, Carter–in a textbook example of political bad timing–then suddenly decided it was time to clean out his cabinet. This decision effectively undermined the message he was trying to convey and, to many Americans, made it look like Carter didn’t know what he was doing. Of course, since Carter went down to defeat the following year, commentators have since spun the “malaise” speech into a colossal blunder on his part without mentioning the subsequent turnover in the cabinet that was really, in retrospect, a much bigger mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/48 "2003-11-04T06:59:37Z")
I was a young boy living in California between 1977 and 1978. I was 14 or 15 at the time I recall. My father was a structural engineer and he was on a two year contract so we left Australia for a while and enjoyed some California hospitality. For some reason, President Carter really resonated with myself as an Australian and yet was largely lampooned by Americans - at least that’s how I recall things. My family had been in London prior to California and I vividly remember how expensive gasoline was there compared to the United States. And also, I vividly recall how squanderous the use of gasoline in the USA was at the time too. President Carter’s efforts to radically modernize the US car industry to make more fuel efficient cars were pretty brave - with hindsight. And indeed, history proved he was correct. By the late 1908’s most American cars were using fuel injection instead of slurpy carburettors. But it took 10 years, you know? And that was a long term payoff - far too long to get re-elected. The one thing I’ve always fanatasised about though - regarding the Hostage Crisis? I’ve always fanatasised what I would have done in President Carter’s shoes - and you know, it was a really shitty position he found himself in - few allies in the region - few deal brokers - few players with influence. And on top of that, the Iranians were all hyped up about overthrowing the Shah and suchforth. I guess timing was of the essence. With hindsight, I’ve always wondered if I’d been President at the time, and within 36 hours of the hostage taking, just simply flown Air Force One straight into Tehran International Airport without clearance - along with a C141 supply plane - and quite simply - just plain called their fucking bluff. As in… “Here I am, I’m the President of The United States of America and I’m fucking, FUCKING pissed off and I’m sitting on a runway in Tehran and I want my 52 citizens back… I dare you to kill me… think about that… go on… think about the opportunity to kill me right here, right now… and what’s gonna happen if you do?” I know, I know - utter fantasy - but wow, what a ballsy move it would have been? ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/49 "2003-11-04T07:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boo Boo Foo \* > **As in… "Here I am, I’m the President of The United States of America and I’m fucking, FUCKING pissed off and I’m sitting on a runway in Tehran and I want my 52 citizens back… I dare you to kill me… think about that… go on… think about the opportunity to kill me right here, right now… and what’s gonna happen if you do?"** Hehe. It’s too bad we couldn’t have had President Harrison Ford. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/50 "2003-11-04T09:24:33Z")
Hah! Yes indeed, that DID sound like a Harrison Ford delivery didn’t it? Sorry about that, Chief! ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/51 "2003-11-05T03:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Peyote Coyote \* > **His administration also sprayed paraquat on domestic marijuana, thereby endangering the lives and health of thousands, if not millions, of heads, myself included.** That’s pretty messed up. It also contradicts what he said to Congress in 1978: > [@](#): > > Penalties against the use of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of a drug itself; and where they are they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against the possession of marijuana. Poisoned pot sounds like a pretty nasty penalty to me… ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/52 "2003-11-05T04:38:57Z")
Nobody in the Carter administration ever sprayed paraquat on domestic marijuana, or ordered anybody else to do so. The **Mexican** government began spraying Mexican marijuana fields with paraquat in the late 1970’s. The only American connection was that they were using helicopters supplied by the United States as part of an opium eradication campaign. The United States made a half-hearted protest to Mexico, and the controversy eventually died down when very little confiscated marijuana was found to be contaminated. The most lasting effect of the controversy was to increase the popularity of Colombian. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/53 "2003-11-06T00:48:07Z")
jklann: The U.S. government supplied $60 million and advisors. Furthermore, paraquat was sprayed specifically on marijuana; another pesticide was used on the poppies. You might check out [http://www.rexresearch.com/hhist/hhist4~1.htm#paraquat](http://www.rexresearch.com/hhist/hhist4~1.htm#paraquat) for more information about the insanity of the government’s war on drugs. The spraying also threatened thousands of heads with sickness. Believe me, this was not a small deal to us, which is one of the reasons I protested at the White House in 1978. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783/54 "2003-11-06T01:39:40Z")
**Coyote** , you’re preaching to the converted as to the insanity of the War on Drugs. But neither one of us will advance the cause by making false charges. In you first post you said that the Carter administration “sprayed paraquat on domestic marijuana”. They didn’t. The only marijuana sprayed was Mexican. It was sprayed by the Mexican government. At worst, the Carter administration was guilty of being insufficiently vehement in its protests. The site to which you linked also suffers from inaccuracies. Per the site: > [@](#): > > Beginning in 1976, the federal government spent $60 million to fund the Mexican government program of aerial spraying of marijuana fields with Agent Orange (2,4-D) herbicide for opium, and Paraquat (Gramoxene) for marijuana. Huh? How do you spray a marijuana field for opium? The American funding, which predated the Carter administration, was specifically for opium eradication. The Mexican government subsequently decided to buy paraquat and use the same helicopters to spray marijuana fields. Again, the Carter administration was guilty, _at worst_, of being insufficiently assertive in protest. > [@](#): > > In September 1976, the Carter administration terminated all funding for the program, but Mexico continued to buy and use its own supplies. That would have been a mean feat, since Gerald Ford was President in September 1976. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jimmy-carter-really-a-bad-president/210783.md?page=2)