# Was Khan Noonien Singh Living During the Time of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [February 8, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281 "2024-02-08T01:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ulysses](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulysses/32/16083_2.png) [@Ulysses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulysses)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/1 "2024-02-08T01:35:09Z")
Recently finished rewatching all of the Star Trek films and in The Wrath of Khan Chekov refers to Khan as “the product of late 20th century genetic engineering” (or words to that effect). Does that mean that Khan was living when, two films later, Kirk and the crew traveled back to the late 1980’s to capture a couple of whales who could save Earth from destruction? I haven’t seen Space Seed (Khan’s original appearance) in decades. Is it more specific about Khan’s birth year? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/2 "2024-02-08T01:42:45Z")
The original timeline had the Eugenics Wars take place from 1992-96. Since Khan was an adult during the wars, he must have been alive in the 80s. It looks like his birthday was somewhere around 1959. > **[Khan Noonien Singh](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Khan_Noonien_Singh)** > > Khan Noonien Singh (or simply Khan) was an extremely intelligent and dangerous superhuman. He was the most prominent of the genetically-engineered Human Augments of the Eugenics Wars period on Earth. Khan was considered, by the USS Enterprise command... ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/3 "2024-02-08T01:45:50Z")
TOS didn’t give a birth year. It just established that he ruled from 1992-1996. They also noted that the ship they found him in was created in the 1990s, and that there were a bunch of supermen who came out on the scene in 1993. And Khan was said to be the right age to be one of them. That said, the “right age” comment implies he aged normally, and so was likely born more than 8 years old at the time. So it would seem likely he was already alive in 1986. As pointed out in the Memory Alpha article linked above, Star Trek Into Darkness has him born in 1959. Sure, that is set in another universe, but that universe split off much later than that, so it’s reasonable to believe that Khan Prime was also born in 1959. ---
**Author:** ![Ulysses](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulysses/32/16083_2.png) [@Ulysses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulysses)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/4 "2024-02-08T01:48:11Z")
Thanks! So definitely a missed opportunity for a side plot in which Kirk wants to seek out a 30-year old Khan and prevent his (Kirk’s) son’s death via a variation of the grandfather paradox. And callbacks to Khan’s Moby Dick quotes given the whale rescue plot of ST IV. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/5 "2024-02-08T01:56:57Z")
The whole point of having Star Dates was to avoid dealing with what happened when in the past. It was a bad mistake to start assigning dates to events, since they might be superseded during the life of the show. After “Space Seed,” _ **Star Trek** _ paid about as much attention to continuity as _ **MASH** _ did. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/6 "2024-02-08T02:10:36Z")
In the original timeline, yes Khan was alive during Star Trek IV. However, more recently in Strange New Worlds, his birth date has been moved up to somewhere in the first half of the 21st century. Most likely changed it since it doesn’t make any sense for the Eugenics Wars to have taken place in the 90’s at this point. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/7 "2024-02-08T02:12:39Z")
I think the justification there is all the various time travel shenanigans has caused the timeline to change. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/8 "2024-02-08T02:14:46Z")
Pretty much, plus Romulan meddling. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/9 "2024-02-08T19:16:42Z")
I wonder how many times Noonien Soong(Data’s creator) got Khan’s Space Mail by mistake. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/10 "2024-02-08T19:31:49Z")
There are no History Monks in the Star Trek universe. The Trousers of Time remain unmended. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/11 "2024-02-08T22:45:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > I wonder how many times Noonien Soong(Data’s creator) got Khan’s Space Mail by mistake. Have they ever addressed this in the show? Because it’s kinda like having a character named “Adolf Hatler” and never addressing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ulysses](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulysses/32/16083_2.png) [@Ulysses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulysses)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/12 "2024-02-08T22:51:01Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Have they ever addressed this in the show? Because it’s kinda like having a character named “Adolf Hatler” and never addressing it. The only instance that I’m aware of is in season two of Picard: A retcon in which Noonien Soong’s ancestor (played by Brent Spiner), a geneticist in the 2020’s, removes a folder labeled “Project Khan” from his desk drawer, implying that the similarity in names was the intentional result of the scientist who engineered Khan. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/13 "2024-02-08T22:53:36Z")
Which only makes things worse - since that Kirk definitely met and interacted with **La’an Noonien-Singh** and should have thought “hmmm - that name seems awfully familiar…” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/14 "2024-02-08T22:54:30Z")
More than implies, in my estimation - and one of the worst things about season 2 (of many to choose from). ---
**Author:** ![Ulysses](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulysses/32/16083_2.png) [@Ulysses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulysses)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/15 "2024-02-08T22:57:03Z")
Concur. It was mainly nostalgia that got me through that season. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/16 "2024-02-09T02:30:37Z")
I think, much like the retcon of Khan’s age, that due all the time travel business, Strange New Worlds shouldn’t be seen as a direct prequel to TOS. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/17 "2024-02-09T02:41:43Z")
> [@Ulysses](#): > > The only instance that I’m aware of is in season two of Picard: (skipping spoiler text) There’s another Trek-cestuous link in the whole thing, namely in Star Trek Enterprise: The same ancestor who funded Project Khan has biological descendants, including [Arik Soong](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Arik_Soong) (once again played by Spiner), who attempted to revive human genetic engineering (called Augments in this series). When it is proven to STILL be a bad idea, he is jailed, although his research is preserved. He then in a blatant shout-out says he’ll turn to new endeavors, perhaps artificial life, although he expects it would take 2-3 generations for anything to come of it. Heavy wink-wink nudge nudge to of course, to Noonien Soong and the android siblings. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-khan-noonien-singh-living-during-the-time-of-star-trek-iv-the-voyage-home/997281/18 "2024-02-09T03:45:33Z")
I think they are doing a pretty clear job of making SNW a direct prequel - I agree that several things make me shake my head, but overall - it seems to fit in quite well. If anything - its making me think that some of those old scientists under Kirk’s command had really poor memories of events and people - like an orwellian mind worm infected the whole crew!