# Was Killing Osama Bin Laden Lawful? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474 "2011-05-02T14:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/1 "2011-05-02T14:13:02Z")
What is the legal justifications for killing OBL? If there is no ‘war’ against Al Qaeda, and OBL is not a combatant, then I don’t see how his intentional targeting for killing\* is legally justified when he’s living in a suburban mansion in Pakistan far removed from the Afghanistan battlefield. However, I do think there is a war against Al Qaeda, and OBL is obviously a member, and that makes him a combatant entitling the US to legally kill him as a measure of first resort wherever found. Any thoughts? Does it matter for _him_? I’m just curious if it’s legal, unless done under the laws of war (Is it legal if he’s not a combatant?). The President in his speech last night used the word “war” regarding Al Qaeda a few times, so I know where he stands. Does the fact that it’s Osama Bin Laden cloud the issue? I feel like I’m missing something obvious (it’s OBL, of course we can kill the fucker!) \*Assume the mission was a raid to take OBL dead or alive. i.e., they didn’t surround the compound and say “come out with your hands up” and OBL shot back, _forcing_ the SEALS to act in self-defense. \*No assumptions on whether Pakistan was ok with us breaching their sovereignty to kill someone. But that’s likely another issue. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/2 "2011-05-02T14:15:21Z")
Lawful Evil? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/3 "2011-05-02T14:22:15Z")
Who cares. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/4 "2011-05-02T14:22:20Z")
Really, who gives a shit. Doesn’t the US president as commander in chief have a licence to kill of foreign nationals? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/5 "2011-05-02T14:26:26Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Really, who gives a shit. Apparently the OP does, since he posed the question. Was that really all that hard to figure out? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/6 "2011-05-02T14:30:01Z")
It largely depends on whether the Pakistanis okayed it first. It’s fairly well settled that conducting military operations inside the borders of a foreign sovereign state is an act of war. > [@](#): > > Doesn’t the US president as commander in chief have a licence to kill of foreign nationals? Under US law, maybe, but that’s not what the OP is asking. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/7 "2011-05-02T14:30:13Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > … and OBL is not a combatant I daresay he was, in a leadership role, and is subject to the same targeting as enemy generals even if they never personally pick up weapons and start shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/8 "2011-05-02T14:31:10Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Lawful Evil? Au contraire, killing an evil arch-terrorist while ignoring rules and laws is Chaotic Good. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/9 "2011-05-02T14:39:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It largely depends on whether the Pakistanis okayed it first. It’s fairly well settled that conducting military operations inside the borders of a foreign sovereign state is an act of war. It \*can be seen \*as an act of war. The Pakistanis are under no obligation to consider it as such. If you slap me on the face, I have the \*right \*to punch you, but I don’t \*have \*to punch you. If you’re bigger than I am, it probably wouldn’t be that good an idea. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/10 "2011-05-02T14:41:26Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Apparently the OP does, since he posed the question. Was that really all that hard to figure out? You actually couldn’t break the code on his comment? Really? Was that really all that hard to figure out? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/11 "2011-05-02T14:43:18Z")
Under what law? Really the question is moot. Osama was never within U.S. territory, so I doubt any federal court would have jurisdiction. Pakistan’s law is irrelevant, since our guys got in and got out without getting caught. International law is…vague at best. Mostly it is whatever we say it is. Obama does have lawful authority as Commander in Chief to order military missions. He did that. Not seeing any real legal problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/12 "2011-05-02T14:45:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It \*can be seen \*as an act of war. The Pakistanis are under no obligation to consider it as such. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/13 "2011-05-02T14:46:27Z")
Even if it wasn’t where will you find 12 Americans who will convict the shooter. Or even a judge and prosecuter ready to bring him to trial? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/14 "2011-05-02T14:46:51Z")
Probably not lawful, but He Who Has The Biggest Club Wins. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/15 "2011-05-02T14:55:53Z")
I don’t know all the details, and I doubt any of us ever will know, but it seems to me a simple case of: We went in to capture him. He and his guards fought back. ObL was killed. We didn’t go in to kill him, but he “resisted arrest”. I guess we could have tried to taser him, but he’d just yell out: Don’t taz me, bro! ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/16 "2011-05-02T14:58:33Z")
We (the government of the USA) warned him that his life would be forfeit; he had ample opportunity to submit himself to the rule of USA law and didn’t take advantage of that opportunity. In MHO he got what he wanted and what he deserved. If the act of killing him was illegal, who will bring charges and in what court? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/17 "2011-05-02T15:05:02Z")
The rest of the FBI’s Most Wanted List has the ‘dead or alive’ caveat right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/18 "2011-05-02T15:10:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know all the details, and I doubt any of us ever will know, but it seems to me a simple case of: We went in to capture him. He and his guards fought back. ObL was killed. We didn’t go in to kill him, but he “resisted arrest”. [I’m struck by this detail from the ABC News story](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/inside-operation-brought-osama-bin-laden/story?id=13506413&page=2) because I’d been wondering about just this issue: > [@](#): > > U.S. officials said that Bin Laden himself fired his weapon during the fight, and that he was asked to surrender but did not. He was shot in the head and then shot again to make sure he was dead. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/19 "2011-05-02T15:11:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It largely depends on whether the Pakistanis okayed it first. It’s fairly well settled that conducting military operations inside the borders of a foreign sovereign state is an act of war. > > Under US law, maybe, but that’s not what the OP is asking. Some Paki would have told him the raid was coming. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474/20 "2011-05-02T15:11:20Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Even if it wasn’t where will you find 12 Americans who will convict the shooter. Or even a judge and prosecuter ready to bring him to trial? I assume the OP is speaking in an academic sense. It’s pretty obvious nobody will (or should!) do time for this. However, it would be prosecuted as a war crime, if at all, so neither 12 Americans nor an (American) judge/prosecutor would be required. Remember, the shooting took place on Pakistani soil, and bin Laden was a foreign national. [QUOTE=gonzomax] Some Paki would have told him the raid was coming. [/QUOTE] “Paki” is an ethnic slur, and there are a number of people on the boards who find it personally offensive. I’ll assume you didn’t know, and are simply using it as a contraction, but I’d appreciate it if you didn’t use it again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-killing-osama-bin-laden-lawful/580474.md?page=2)