# Was Kingdom of Heaven a sleeper? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 17, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431 "2006-01-17T23:20:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/1 "2006-01-17T23:20:36Z")
I rented it last night, and will have to say I enjoyed the movie as much, if not more than Gladiator. I don’t recall much hoopla about the realease. As a matter of fact I only remember seeing it advertised on the History of Discovery channel. I may have seen it on the networks, but somehow I got the impression it was more of a made-for-TV kind of mini-series. I don’t know how I could have gotten that impression. After watching it and the dvd extras and seeing the budget, (much more than Gladiator) I can’t fathom why this wouldn’t be some box office hit.Was the advertising budget missing? Did it run against Star Wars or something? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/2 "2006-01-18T00:13:04Z")
I don’t think so. I haven’t seen it, and I’m definately the target demo, but I recall that there was no shortage of marketing. They did the standard, full frontal blockbuster movie hype. IMHO the problems were: 1. Epic swordsplay, period melodrama fatigue. It was one of the last of a steady diet of Gladiator, Troy, King Arthur, Pirates of the Caribbean, Master and Commander, Lord of the Rings and people really were getting bored with the genre. 2. Casting Orlando Bloom was probably a bad choice. Again, he’s been in a dozen of these movies and guys have been somewhat tepid on him. Girls enjoy him it seems, but the rest of this movie didn’t seem to appeal to them. 3. Calling it Kingdom of _Heaven_ might make it seem to be an overly preachy or religiously slanted to have broad appeal. Personally I was put off by the fact that it seemed to glorify the Crusades when the reality as I know it is alot more barbaric. I would have stomached the creative license but I really don’t want to see a movie that bludgeoned me with Christian imagery. 4. Poorly crafted marketing. They ran a lot of ads it seemed, but none of them really told me what the movie was and reeled me in. As I recall them, they were a series of action scenes and a predictable love story cut together without giving me a synopsis of the real plot. To this day I don’t know what it’s actually about…I just know the setting, the style and the costumes. 5. Did I menion Orlando Bloom… 6. Other than Orlando Bloom there’s no one in it I’d go out of my way to see. The successful historical action films tended to either have a strong fan base built from the source material or a cast of at least 5 well known actors playing roles we wanted to see. In this one, while there may be some solid performances, there wasn’t any discussion of anyone else in it beside Bloom. Just not enough to draw in anyone but diehard genre fans. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/3 "2006-01-18T00:45:09Z")
I’d add the fact that, like _Gladiator_, it had a stupid script. Looked great, though. I seem to recall quite a few ads for the movie before it opened. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/4 "2006-01-18T01:02:41Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > 1. Calling it Kingdom of _Heaven_ might make it seem to be an overly preachy or religiously slanted to have broad appeal. Personally I was put off by the fact that it seemed to glorify the Crusades when the reality as I know it is alot more barbaric. I would have stomached the creative license but I really don’t want to see a movie that bludgeoned me with Christian imagery. Interestingly I’ve seen some criticism that it was overly PC and too _pro_-Muslim :D. > [@](#): > > 1. Other than Orlando Bloom there’s no one in it I’d go out of my way to see. Eh, I like Liam Neeson, though I’m not sure I’d go out of my way to see a movie just because he was in it. Very lukewarm on Orlando Bloom, who doesn’t offend but neither does he impress. I actually still haven’t seen it, even though it is right down my alley subject-wise. Keep meaning to grab it off On Demand on cable, but I’ve been lazy. I suspect I will enjoy it mildly, while dissing the no doubt numerous historical errors ( which I can excuse as long they aren’t horrendously unnecessary and the film entertains ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/5 "2006-01-18T01:09:32Z")
The beginning of the movie had a stupid script. Ah come on do we really need a shipwreck-\>sole survivor washed up on shore scene? But once the actual movie gets started, it’s a very well made message on the state of affairs in the middle east. Not to mention that Edward Norton (who I didn’t realise it was until I checked on IMDB) kicked mucho butt at his role. In the end, my main beef with it was that it seemed like they had cut it short. I’m personally guessing that either they just were trying to stretch what was originally a stupid script (with a rewritten core) and couldn’t or didn’t feel like rewriting the full thing into a full movie, or that a lot was editted down so there would be enough action and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/6 "2006-01-18T01:21:30Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > I’d add the fact that, like _Gladiator_, it had a stupid script. Looked great, though. I seem to recall quite a few ads for the movie before it opened. > [@Tamerlene](#): > > Interestingly I’ve seen some criticism that it was overly PC and too pro-Muslim . Both may very well be true. I wouldn’t know since I didn’t see it and the ads didn’t inform me of it. And that, as far as the OP is concerned, is why the movie seems to have gone unnoticed. Also, I had no idea that Niesen and Norton were in it at all. The marketing happended right at Bloom’s “it” status peak, so perhaps they went overboard on hyping him and downplaying the rest. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/7 "2006-01-18T01:25:34Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > In the end, my main beef with it was that it seemed like they had cut it short. I’m personally guessing that either they just were trying to stretch what was originally a stupid script (with a rewritten core) and couldn’t or didn’t feel like rewriting the full thing into a full movie, or that a lot was editted down so there would be enough action and whatnot. In the DVD extras it had a whole story about the king’s sister’s son. From what I gather they were discovering he had leprosy(sp) too. They took it out because it took away too much focus on Bloom’s character. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/8 "2006-01-18T01:29:29Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Also, I had no idea that Niesen and Norton were in it at all. The marketing happended right at Bloom’s “it” status peak, so perhaps they went overboard on hyping him and downplaying the rest. Jeremy Irons and David Thewlis also had pretty prominant roles. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/9 "2006-01-18T01:58:30Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Also, I had no idea that Niesen and Norton were in it at all. > [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Jeremy Irons and David Thewlis also had pretty prominant roles. See and I hadn’t heard about the last three. I like all four of those actors - I really should watch it. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/10 "2006-01-18T02:11:04Z")
I must admit that Jeremy Irons probably did one of his least impressive performances in this. …Though he was also pretty cheesy in Casanova. On a downslope perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/11 "2006-01-18T02:29:44Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > I must admit that Jeremy Irons probably did one of his least impressive performances in this. …Though he was also pretty cheesy in Casanova. You obviously haven’t seen the horror that was Dungeons and Dragons, the movie :p. Jeremy Irons seems capable of near Vincent Price-level hamminess if not kept in check ( or he’s bored or whatever ). However when properly directed ( or is doing something he likes or whatever ) he can be pretty good. I doubt it is declining skill per se - maybe just lack of engagement in the role, a weak script or an inept/not sympatico director. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/12 "2006-01-18T02:39:17Z")
I thought the movie was all right. Better than Gladiator, but so are a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/13 "2006-01-18T02:44:07Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > You obviously haven’t seen the horror that was Dungeons and Dragons, the movie :p. Jeremy Irons seems capable of near Vincent Price-level hamminess if not kept in check ( or he’s bored or whatever ). Oh no I thought he was excellent in _Dungeons_. I mean if I was the world’s best actor and cast to be in the stupidest movie ever, I would go for the ham too. I thought it was beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/14 "2006-01-18T02:44:38Z")
You wouldn’t know Edward Norton was in it because he had an unbilled cameo as King Baldwin, who as a leper never shows his face… or so I heard. I never actually got to see it either, but I will if I get a chance. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/15 "2006-01-18T03:26:55Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You wouldn’t know Edward Norton was in it because he had an unbilled cameo as King Baldwin, who as a leper never shows his face… or so I heard. I never actually got to see it either, but I will if I get a chance. I didn’t know who he was until I looked it up. He made the character intriguing, although all you ever saw was [this](http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0320661/KOH-466.jpg), so I knew he had to be a popular actor. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/16 "2006-01-18T03:33:12Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You wouldn’t know Edward Norton was in it because he had an unbilled cameo as King Baldwin, who as a leper never shows his face… or so I heard. I never actually got to see it either, but I will if I get a chance. Slight nitpick: is it an unbilled cameo? I think he’s listed in the credits. Personally I don’t think it was so much of a sleeper as a modest hit that way undershot expectations and hype. It didn’t do _that_ badly, as far as box-office revenues go, and it’s not the worst movie out there by far, but it certainly wasn’t the must-see blockbuster of the year. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/17 "2006-01-18T04:14:28Z")
I seem to remember hearing it did better overseas than it did in the US. It is on my list to rent and watch, one of these days. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/18 "2006-01-18T04:28:44Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Slight nitpick: is it an unbilled cameo? I think he’s listed in the credits. I heard he was unbilled, and [here’s a cite.](http://www.moviefinder4u.com/movie_detail/024543206408.html) ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/19 "2006-01-18T06:07:51Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Personally I don’t think it was so much of a sleeper as a modest hit that way undershot expectations and hype. It didn’t do _that_ badly, as far as box-office revenues go, and it’s not the worst movie out there by far, but it certainly wasn’t the must-see blockbuster of the year. That’s the problem. I don’t remember much hype. Most people who said they hav’nt seen it have stated they don’t know much abut it. I was the same until I rented it. I wouldn’t have minded seeing it in the theaters, and I only go to them when there is a movie I just have to see with the theater “effect” because I hate the crowds. After seeing it I recommend it to anyone who likes epic adventures. I have seen alot worse, and only a few better. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431/20 "2006-01-18T06:20:58Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > In the end, my main beef with it was that it seemed like they had cut it short. [Check this out](http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22100). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-kingdom-of-heaven-a-sleeper/340431.md?page=2)