# Was LbJ a nut? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 30, 2006, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831 "2006-04-30T13:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/21 "2006-05-03T23:09:20Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] No, he wasn’t. He was a thief, a major league asshole, and he made Texans look bad because everybody thought he was just a good old boy from Texas. The worst day of his life was when they left the front gate of the LBJ ranch open and all the cows went back home. [/QUOTE] Why is it so tough to formulate a reply to the OP instead of derailing this thread? I just don’t get. **Clothy**. Remember which forum this is. **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/22 "2006-05-03T23:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] Richard Goodwin, a longtime advisor and speechwriter of the Kennedy family, and one of the Kennedy insiders that LBJ kept in his administration. [/QUOTE] And, incidentally, the guy played by Rob Morrow in _Quiz Show_. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/23 "2006-05-04T02:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > **samclem** : Why is it so tough to formulate a reply to the OP instead of derailing this thread? I just don’t get. (I think **Clothahump** was following the tracks laid down by **Zebra’s** insulting derailment.) According to the link that astro supplied, respected and popular historian Doris Kearns (Goodwin) makes a fairly sound case for LBJ having abnormal behavior regarding at least his bathroom habits. She spent a lot of time with the Johnsons in Texas and wrote a biography of Johnson. I seem to remember his flashing a surgery scar to the press and pulling one of his dogs up by the ears. I had the impression that he was unusually impulsive when he had an audience – which was most of the time. These things seem absurdly small in comparison to what he did in the war, but I guess after a while we get used to warrior presidents. I too saw him in person. He was impressive. Big and surprisingly well-manicured in his looks. Very silver. Not as creepy looking as he makes me feel now. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/24 "2006-05-04T03:33:59Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] (I think **Clothahump** was following the tracks laid down by **Zebra’s** insulting derailment.) [/QUOTE] Also, take a look at **Clothahump’s** location. That might help explain things. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/25 "2006-05-04T04:47:07Z")
I’m too young to really comment on LBJ specifically, but this question prompted me to pull out my Abnormal Psychology textbook and look up the elements of psychological abnormality. So, without really commenting on how they apply to LBJ, here they are: Suffering Maladaptiveness Irrationality Unpredictability and/or loss of control Rareness and unconventionality Observer discomfort Violation of well-defined social standards ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/26 "2006-05-04T05:03:22Z")
[QUOTE=BlakeTyner] I’m too young to really comment on LBJ specifically, but this question prompted me to pull out my Abnormal Psychology textbook and look up the elements of psychological abnormality. So, without really commenting on how they apply to LBJ, here they are: Suffering Maladaptiveness Irrationality Unpredictability and/or loss of control Rareness and unconventionality Observer discomfort Violation of well-defined social standards [/QUOTE] Well I guess we’re all fucked now, 'cuz I don’t know a soul that this list can’t describe from time to time. C-SPAN Radio plays the LBJ tapes regularly. You can only get it over the air in D.C. (and Baltimore?), but you can also stream it from C-SPAN’s homepage. Anyway, I’ve listened to more than a few hours of these tapes and it seems clear to me that the guy was something of a political genius – the way he made sure he got what he wanted without ever pissing most people off too much as to burn the briges is quite masterful, and I’d encourage anyone interested in this topic to give a listen. They’re a fascinating piece of American history in their own right. Of course, the other thing about the tapes, at least on the domestic side, is that they show Johnson pulling the whole damn country up by its ears w/r/t segregation, and labor policy, not to mention The Great Society. So not only was he an astounding operator, but his goals were things that I find not only admirable, but astounding given the political climate in which he found himself. Anyway, if I could pick any one president to be in my foxhole, there’s a 50% chance I’d ask for LBJ. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/27 "2006-05-04T05:26:36Z")
[QUOTE=solkoe] … how did he get to be president? [/QUOTE] Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/28 "2006-05-04T13:51:55Z")
I think my favorite LBJ story (other than the one where he told the Air Force guy, "Son, they’re _all_ my helicopters) was one told by Jack Valenti, who was on Johnson’s White House staff. They sat down for a meal and Valenti began saying grace. LBJ said, “Speak up, Jack - I can’t hear you!” Valenti calmly replied, “I wasn’t talking to you, Mr. President.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/29 "2006-05-04T14:16:18Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Why is it so tough to formulate a reply to the OP instead of derailing this thread? [/QUOTE] Because, although the main content of the OP asks a fairly straightforward question about LBJ’s habits, the title of this thread is “Was LBJ a nut?” and some people are probably responding to that. It’s not exactly a question amenable to a factual answer. ---
**Author:** ![darkbunny1000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dc4da7/32.png) [@darkbunny1000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/darkbunny1000)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/30 "2012-09-06T00:54:40Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I’d say that LBJ’s handling of Vietnam qualifies him as being close to mentally ill. On the one hand, the guy was sending more and more troops into this disaster, all the while realizing that the whole mess was unwinnable. He had a giant model of khe San in the White House basement-and seemed obsessed with the minutae of this recreation of Dien Bien Phu-supposedly htis place (Khe Sanh) was the “linchpin of our strategy”-then a few months later, it was inconsequential. He was a mean, vindictive, and amoral man. Yet, his conscience got to him in the end-I guess reading all those obituaries finally made him realize something. From what i understand, Johnson retired to his ranch and drank himself to death. Thnx for the info because I really needed it for a short answer on Lyndon Johnson ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/31 "2012-09-06T01:01:59Z")
Note: 6-year-old thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/32 "2012-09-06T01:26:42Z")
> [@darkbunny1000](#): > > Thnx for the info because I really needed it for a short answer on Lyndon Johnson I can’t wait to see the grade on your homework. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/33 "2012-09-06T05:19:36Z")
Who was the person who told the tale of LBJ whipping it out in a Cabinet meeting and saying “Let’s see if Ho Chi Minh has anything \*\*this \*\*big!” I was thinking it may have been somebody with a powerful name, like Dean Acheson, or someone similar who told it, but, it may have been Godwin. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/34 "2012-09-06T06:01:28Z")
> [@darkbunny1000](#): > > Thnx for the info because I really needed it for a short answer on Lyndon Johnson So, your source will be “I read something some guy posted on an Internet message board six years ago”? ---
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/35 "2012-09-06T12:34:48Z")
These anecdotes about LBJ make me think of Zap Branigan from Futurama. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/36 "2012-09-06T12:54:42Z")
> [@BlueOhio](#): > > These anecdotes about LBJ make me think of Zap Branigan from Futurama. Nixon: “For God’s sake, Brannigan, cover yourself! I didn’t live a thousand years and travel a quadrillion miles to stare at another man’s gizmo.” ---
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/37 "2012-09-06T15:50:12Z")
“Inform the Cabinet that I have made it with a woman.” ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/38 "2012-09-06T17:25:39Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I donb’t know about other dignitaries, but LBJ used to enjoy dealing with subordinates while he was sitting on the toilet with the bathroom door open, probably for the purposes of establishing how busy he was and how he felt comfortable treating them like his personal body servants. I don’t know if this was erratic as much as just (figuratively) rubbing people’s noses in his shit to show off how powerful he was. Richard Goodwin’s wife, Doris Kearns Goodwin, also worked with LBJ in the White House and [also wrote a book about it](http://us.macmillan.com/lyndonjohnsonandtheamericandream/DorisKearnsGoodwin). I haven’t read it so I don’t know what her take is on his “insanity”, but I’ve seen her on TV describe him as a fascinating man. She also mentioned taking dictation for him in the bathroom while he was taking a dump, so I don’t think it was a power thing for him, at least not with her. > [@mhendo](#): > > Note: 6-year-old thread. Aw damn.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/39 "2012-09-06T17:35:47Z")
And it only took 11 post until it was Goodwinized. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831/40 "2012-09-07T00:31:07Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I’d say that LBJ’s handling of Vietnam qualifies him as being close to mentally ill. On the one hand, the guy was sending more and more troops into this disaster, all the while realizing that the whole mess was unwinnable. He had a giant model of khe San in the White House basement-and seemed obsessed with the minutae of this recreation of Dien Bien Phu-supposedly htis place (Khe Sanh) was the “linchpin of our strategy”-then a few months later, it was inconsequential. He was a mean, vindictive, and amoral man. Yet, his conscience got to him in the end-I guess reading all those obituaries finally made him realize something. From what i understand, Johnson retired to his ranch and drank himself to death. I don’t think he’s as bad as you think he is - he did try to do the right thing, such as with desegregation. He certainly doesn’t strike me as being a Texas good ole boy as suggested up thread. I think he’s one of the most interesting of modern presidents. It’s a pity he didn’t do what needed to be done about withdrawing from Vietnam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lbj-a-nut/354831.md?page=3)