# Was Lenny Bruce \*actually\* funny, or was he just offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561 "2004-02-16T22:33:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/21 "2011-11-21T17:06:59Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I like his quotes and think he was probably generally funny, but I’ve heard his 1961 Carnegie Hall show that was said to be the best of his life and didn’t so much as chuckle. But then again, have you heard the other comedians of that age? I’ve grown up listening to great comedy but if I lived in '61 and had only heard “Take my wife, please! [rimshot]” Bruce would have probably knocked me out of my seat. > > What the…? > > Oh, just realized this thread was 7 years old, resurrected for that political gibberish above. Yeah, I missed that too, and now I feel bad for helping to bump this zombie. I gotta pay more attention to the posting dates. ---
**Author:** ![norvalnormal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@norvalnormal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norvalnormal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/22 "2011-11-21T17:09:36Z")
Dunno why Bruce’s original names that Odesio has intentionally made more contemporary would offend anyone here. Bruce asked his pre-1965 audience, What if you had to make love to a white woman or a Negro? … Okay, well, what if the black woman was Lena Horne … and the white one Kate Smith? (Still) pretty funny as well as being potent satire, ya ask me! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/23 "2011-11-21T17:13:03Z")
**docweasel** is a retired minor functionary who is pissed that FDR got elected. He wouldn’t know funny if it bit him on the ass, which it apparently did, cuz that last post of his was _gold_! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/24 "2011-11-21T17:14:50Z")
Lenny was very funny for a long time. He was topical when other comedians weren’t. He pushed boundries, which I always approve. But when the cops started busting him, he just preached about his problems instead of being funny. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/25 "2011-11-21T17:35:53Z")
> [@docweasel](#): > > I think you mean “Bill” Hicks, not John. > > Lenny Bruce is considered a hero and a great comedian because he was a leftist, and since the left controls Hollywood and most media, they glorify their heroes and hype up their legend. That’s why JFK, a failure in almost every respect whose ineptitude nearly started nuclear war and whose weakness allowed the Berlin Wall and communist excursions the world over while he consorted with mobsters’ molls, constantly comes up on presidential ratings polls in the top 10. That’s why Hillary Clinton, who would have accomplished nothing without her husband’s coattails is the most admired politician in America and Sarah Palin, who persevered on her own without personal wealth or shady real estate deals, is vilified. > > In America today everything is polarized, from Tom Tebow to Avatar and everything else in pop-culture, claimed by and promoted by or vilified by either the left or the right and claimed by one side or the other. Bruce comes down on the left, so be benefits from their control of his story. Lady Thatcher was conservative, so lefties, who control the hollywood “truth” about people are free to demonize and slander her, as they did Reagan. > > But don’t try to produce a Kennedy movie without permission of the leftist gate-keepers. > > Another good example is the leftist portrayal of the Tea Party vs. OWS. Luckily, the leftist pop culture machine has pushed this crap for so long, most Americans have learned to filter it out. The problem is, sometimes it takes a while for the lies and hype to crumble, and in that interim disasters like Captain Wonderful’s election to the presidency can occur. > > You can be sure Hollywood will airbrush his deficiencies when it’s time to for his hagiographic retrospectives (as they attempt to do now, as the left-wing media writes the “first draft of history”). > > It is encouraging that the truth about Princess Precious is coming out slowly, despite their obfuscations these past 4 years since he came to prominence, even lefties like Chris Matthews cannot deny the truth. > [http://youtu.be/pB4b11\_LREA](http://youtu.be/pB4b11_LREA) > > \*Last edited by docweasel; Today at 07:36 AM. \* That was _edited_? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/26 "2011-11-21T18:06:35Z")
A few points here: 1. The posts in this thread that come before **docweasel** ’s are from early 2002, so if you want to respond to those posters, please be aware they may not see it. 2. Lenny Bruce was a very political comedian, so any discussion of his work is going to include some talk about politics. But most of what you said isn’t relevant to this thread, **docweasel** , and it doesn’t really belong in Cafe Society in the first place. 3. So if anyone wants a discussion of leftism and Hollywood in general, please start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/27 "2011-11-21T18:06:47Z")
> [@norvalnormal](#): > > Dunno why Bruce’s original names that Odesio has intentionally made more contemporary would offend anyone here. Bruce asked his pre-1965 audience, What if you had to make love to a white woman or a Negro? … Okay, well, what if the black woman was Lena Horne … and the white one Kate Smith? > > (Still) pretty funny as well as being potent satire, ya ask me! It isn’t about offense, it’s about getting the joke. You only understand the humor if you know what those women looked like. So here you go: [ul] [li][Kate Smith, who I had never heard of before](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Smith) but who was a famous singer in the 1940s.[/li][li]And, of course, [the beautiful, amazing Lena Horne, who I most certainly had heard of before.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Horne)[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/28 "2011-11-21T18:13:40Z")
> [@quiltguy154](#): > > If you’ve never seen the animated short film parodying the Lone Ranger, that incorporates Bruce’s stand-up routine, you’ve missed one of the funniest moments in American comedy. Thanks to the miracle that is the future, this is on youtube now: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWGO3ePMcMg&ob=av3n](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWGO3ePMcMg&ob=av3n) (NWS) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/29 "2011-11-21T18:15:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That was _edited_? I’m more impressed that he remembered his password after seven years. I’m guessing it’s something like “COMMIESCUM.” Anyway, I heard some Lenny Bruce special on public radio one day and I honestly couldn’t make heads or tails of it. Something about calling a woman a “fresser” (which I know from the deli is Yiddish for something like “over-stuffed”) and the audience thought it was hilarious. I was looking for a Yiddish dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/30 "2011-11-21T19:25:25Z")
> [@docweasel](#): > > That’s why JFK, a failure in almost every respect whose ineptitude nearly started nuclear war and whose weakness allowed the Berlin Wall and communist excursions the world over while he consorted with mobsters’ molls, constantly comes up on presidential ratings polls in the top 10. I credit Vaughn Meader. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/31 "2011-11-21T20:18:41Z")
The most easy-to-find videos of Lenny Bruce performing were from the tail end of his career, when his act mostly consisted of sitting on a bar stool and reading the transcripts from his then-current trial. To the extent that he was ever brilliant, it wasn’t for that. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/32 "2011-11-21T20:52:11Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I’m more impressed that he remembered his password after seven years. I’m guessing it’s something like “COMMIESCUM.” > > Anyway, I heard some Lenny Bruce special on public radio one day and I honestly couldn’t make heads or tails of it. Something about calling a woman a “fresser” (which I know from the deli is Yiddish for something like “over-stuffed”) and the audience thought it was hilarious. I was looking for a Yiddish dictionary. I understand your bewilderment. A lot of Bruce’s routines have cultural references that seem so arcane and obscure to people in 2011 that you need footnotes. In fact, one could argue that some of his jokes contained references that were at least somewhat obscure even to his audiences during the 1950s and 60s. For example, like many comics of the period, Bruce used to do impersonations as part of his act. However, rather than doing familiar ones like Humphrey Bogart, Jimmy Cagney, or John Wayne, Bruce did one of [George Macready](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Macready) sniffing glue. Macready was a character actor who’s now best known by film-buffs for his roles in **Gilda** and **Paths of Glory** (where he played the incompetent commander who forces his men to make a pointless and suicidal attack) but even back then I don’t think too many other comedians were knocking themselves out trying to do the perfect George Macready. To somebody now, Bruce’s choosing to do George Macready as the celebrity who’s sniffing glue (as opposed to somebody like, say, Peter Lorre) would appear to be part of the joke. It would be an early example of stand-up comedy deconstruction (even though this was years before anybody used the term “deconstruction” in this way). ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/33 "2011-11-21T21:16:42Z")
> [@docweasel](#): > > Lenny Bruce is considered a hero and a great comedian because he was a leftist, and since the left controls Hollywood and most media, they glorify their heroes and hype up their legend. That’s why JFK, a failure in almost every respect whose ineptitude nearly started nuclear war and whose weakness allowed the Berlin Wall and communist excursions the world over while he consorted with mobsters’ molls, constantly comes up on presidential ratings polls in the top 10. That’s why Hillary Clinton, who would have accomplished nothing without her husband’s coattails is the most admired politician in America and Sarah Palin, who persevered on her own without personal wealth or shady real estate deals, is vilified. > [@sh1bu1](#): > > Now _that’s_ funny. No, the real humor is the punch line: > [@docweasel](#): > > In America today everything is polarized, from Tom Tebow to Avatar and everything else in pop-culture, claimed by and promoted by or vilified by either the left or the right and claimed by one side or the other. Thank God we have him to stop the relentless political polarization! ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/34 "2011-11-21T21:25:26Z")
Never can get enough of his Dracula impersonation. Just never gets old. But, seriously, props for him dragging that chestnut onto a Philly Joe Jones album sometime in the 1950s. Not that funny IMO, his whole shtik. A few gems, like the goyish/jewish bit, but not that many. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/35 "2011-11-21T21:45:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Moving this zombie thread to Cafe Society from General Questions. And about damn time, too! Seriously – what is it with all the zombie threads lately? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/36 "2011-11-21T23:30:58Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Seriously – what is it with all the zombie threads lately? I know! What’s really embarrassing is when I read through one of these and come upon something I wrote in it–five years ago! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/37 "2011-11-21T23:49:10Z")
I don’t know if **Exapno Mapcase** is going to revisit this thread, but I want to correct what he said. There is a lot of Bruce material from his prime. The Carnegie Hall Concert, from early 1962, is an excellent example, and was around when this thread began - I have it in LPs it is so old. I’ve just listened to a 6 CD box set (which I got from the library) which includes a lot of rarities and things from his entire career, including his bit on the Arthur Godfrey talent show, very funny. It’s true that his very last bits aren’t very funny, and are kind of like the last act of a tragedy, but plenty of really funny stuff is around - “Christ and Moses,” “Father Flotsky,” “Non-skeddo Airlines” and a lot more. I think he is so revered today not only for being funny but for sacrificing himself for the freedom to say what he wanted to up on the stage. You can tell from some of the recordings (he started to record his last shows to protect himself from the cops) that he knew very well what would happen to him if he said the wrong things, and he insisted on doing it anyway. I don’t think he was all that political a humorist, unless you consider being against racism and censorship as political. He has a bit with Ike trying to get Nixon to take another trip to take the heat off Sherman Adams. Which reveals another problem - if you aren’t old enough, or haven’t studied some late '50s early '60s culture, half the references will fly right over your head. Plus, I think you really need to hear him, not read the bits. I wasn’t all that impressed with the movie, by the way. Example: From Christ and Moses, Cardinal Spellman has the Pope on the line and is trying to give a hint about the boys who just dropped in “With a cross of hmm hmm … No, not Zorro!” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/38 "2011-11-22T02:34:38Z")
I’ve always liked his bit with the two casting agents trying to cast the new Fuhrer. and they go with the painter. AKA “Ze guy mit ze mustache and the hair in front of ze face.” Hitler: Hey, come on, don’ jerk me around you guys. I got tree garages to paint in Prague today. I gotta finish them up ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/39 "2011-11-22T02:50:07Z")
I remember the first “Rolling Stone Rock-and some jazz- Record Guide” in 1980 rated his albums pretty poorly. They did say one three LP set had a long interesting rambling about being arrested but that was about it. A lot of one and two star ratings: like you expect from the Osmonds or Uriah Heep. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561/40 "2011-11-22T03:30:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I don’t know if **Exapno Mapcase** is going to revisit this thread, but I want to correct what he said. There is a lot of Bruce material from his prime. The Carnegie Hall Concert, from early 1962, is an excellent example, and was around when this thread began - I have it in LPs it is so old. > > I’ve just listened to a 6 CD box set (which I got from the library) which includes a lot of rarities and things from his entire career, including his bit on the Arthur Godfrey talent show, very funny. > It’s true that his very last bits aren’t very funny, and are kind of like the last act of a tragedy, but plenty of really funny stuff is around - “Christ and Moses,” “Father Flotsky,” “Non-skeddo Airlines” and a lot more. > I think he is so revered today not only for being funny but for sacrificing himself for the freedom to say what he wanted to up on the stage. You can tell from some of the recordings (he started to record his last shows to protect himself from the cops) that he knew very well what would happen to him if he said the wrong things, and he insisted on doing it anyway. > I don’t think he was all that political a humorist, unless you consider being against racism and censorship as political. He has a bit with Ike trying to get Nixon to take another trip to take the heat off Sherman Adams. Which reveals another problem - if you aren’t old enough, or haven’t studied some late '50s early '60s culture, half the references will fly right over your head. Plus, I think you really need to hear him, not read the bits. I wasn’t all that impressed with the movie, by the way. > > Example: From Christ and Moses, Cardinal Spellman has the Pope on the line and is trying to give a hint about the boys who just dropped in > “With a cross of hmm hmm … No, not Zorro!” We’re using different definitions about what his prime was. Bruce started stand-up in 1947. He worked all the way through the 50s, and it’s those years, primarily the last half of the decade, that are supposed to be his prime. He put out a bunch of highly edited albums before 1960, although I’ve never heard any. Some of the routines have been repeated on other albums, but from what I’ve read they’re as bad a representation of what his live act was like as the recording we have of the Beatles in Hamburg were of their early days. By early 1961 (not 62), when the Carnegie Hall album was recorded, Bruce was already heavily into his drug downfall. His arrests didn’t start until later in the year, but from accounts he was going downhill fast. I’m too young to know any of this first-hand, but I’ve read a lot about Bruce’s glory days. And they’re always about the 50s. That could be wrong. I wasn’t there, and neither were most of the people who write about him. Unless that box set you mention (Let the Buyer Beware, I assume) has some home audio, though, I doubt that any of the real Lenny from the 50s has been preserved. If it does, I’d be interested in the contents. Amazon doesn’t show a table of contents, so to speak. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-lenny-bruce-actually-funny-or-was-he-just-offensive/229561.md?page=3)