# Was Mary, mother of Jesus, canonized? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 15, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133 "2005-02-15T02:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/1 "2005-02-15T02:40:01Z")
Was the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ, the Theotokos, canonized by the Catholic Church? If so, when? If she was canonized, is there a reason she is referred to as the Blessed Virgin Mary rather than Saint Mary, Mother of God? WRS ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/2 "2005-02-15T03:08:26Z")
I don’t know if there was ever a formal canonisation ceremony. I doubt it. I don’t think such ceremonies developed until centuries after the foundation of the Church. I’d say the logic was simply that her position as the Mother of God automatically grants her unique status among the saints. As for the actual terminology, I’d say it’s purely a matter of popular usage. While the Virgin isn’t generally referred to as Saint Mary, people will talk of churches that are dedicated to her as _Saint Mary’s_. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/3 "2005-02-15T03:28:07Z")
But in churches called “Saint Mary’s,” is it the BVM or, say, Saint Mary Magdalen or some Saint Mary Somethingortheother? WRS ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/4 "2005-02-15T03:59:23Z")
Usually, if a church is dedicated to St. Mary Magdeline or St. Mary Somethingorother, it is usually named and referred to St. Mary Magdeline or St. Mary Somethingorother (in Byzantine Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, you might find a St. Mary of Egypt here or there) in order to distinguish the Mary the church is named after from the BVM. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/5 "2005-02-15T04:11:22Z")
The early church, in company with Eastern Orthodoxy to the present, operates on a standard of sainthood being recognized first by the locals who knew the late saint and then being ratified by a synod or patriarch or somebody ( **yBeayf** or **rocking chair** will have to specify who does the ratification; I forget). Almost all the early saints were “spontaneously” acknowledged in this way – including my namesake. Formal canonization was a later development, though I’m not sure when it got started. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/6 "2005-02-15T04:37:28Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > But in churches called “Saint Mary’s,” is it the BVM or, say, Saint Mary Magdalen or some Saint Mary Somethingortheother?WRS For Catholic churches (which is the sort I know best), a reference to St Mary’s will be shorthand for a church dedicated in honour of the Virgin Mary. For example, my local parish church is dedicated under the title of the Immaculate Conception, but everybody calls it St Mary’s, North Sydney. Similarly, the cathedral in Sydney is dedicated under the title of Our Lady, Help of Christians, but it’s known universally as St Mary’s Cathedral. Where a church is dedicated to another Saint Mary, the name is always spelt out in full e.g. Saint Mary Magdalene’s, Saint Maria Goretti’s, Blessed Mary MacKillop ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/7 "2005-02-15T04:42:10Z")
Thanks! This actually wraps up all my questions. Seems like Mary was, like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Stephen, and other apostles and martyrs of the early church, automatically considered a saint without need for official canonization, proof of which is in the fact that she is called “Saint Mary” and that any reference to “Saint Mary” without specification about which Mary refers to the BVM. If I remember correctly, none of the early saints were actually canonized. When, how, and why the process of canonization came about would be interesting indeed to study. WRS ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/8 "2005-02-15T04:42:25Z")
Just to point out that we still have the open question of why “BVM” is the SOP usage among Catholics, as opposed to referencing the lady as “Saint Mary” with or without an epithet to make sure you know it’s Jesus’s Mother being referred to. I think **WRS** is paying attention to the “Blessed” title given to persons who have been beatified but not yet canonized, and hence wondering why that is applied to the uber-saint of Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/9 "2005-02-15T04:51:51Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Just to point out that we still have the open question of why “BVM” is the SOP usage among Catholics, as opposed to referencing the lady as “Saint Mary” with or without an epithet to make sure you know it’s Jesus’s Mother being referred to. > > I think **WRS** is paying attention to the “Blessed” title given to persons who have been beatified but not yet canonized, and hence wondering why that is applied to the uber-saint of Catholicism. Bingo! You got exactly why I questioned her designation as “Blessed.” The only guess I can venture to make is that in Mary’s Magnificat, in the Gospel according to Saint Luke, she says, “For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed” (Luke 1:48, KJV): referring to her as the “Blessed Virgin Mary” rather than the “Saint Virgin Mary” would fulfill that. WRS ---
**Author:** ![Bean\_Counter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@Bean\_Counter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bean_Counter)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/10 "2005-02-15T05:07:12Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Bingo! You got exactly why I questioned her designation as “Blessed.” > > The only guess I can venture to make is that in Mary’s Magnificat, in the Gospel according to Saint Luke, she says, “For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed” (Luke 1:48, KJV): referring to her as the “Blessed Virgin Mary” rather than the “Saint Virgin Mary” would fulfill that. > > WRS Or how about right before that in Luke 1:41-42 (NAB), "When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.” Two uses in such a short period. Think Luke was trying to make a point? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/11 "2005-02-15T05:10:52Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Bingo! You got exactly why I questioned her designation as “Blessed.” > > The only guess I can venture to make is that in Mary’s Magnificat, in the Gospel according to Saint Luke, she says, “For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed” (Luke 1:48, KJV): referring to her as the “Blessed Virgin Mary” rather than the “Saint Virgin Mary” would fulfill that. > > WRS I was just about to make the same suggestion - that the notion of _gratia plena_, the overwhelming plenitude of grace received by the Virgin Mary sets her apart from the other saints and makes her worthy of special veneration (_hyperdulia_). The Latin usage (which was the most common usage until the 1960s) was always _Beata Maria Virgo_. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/12 "2005-02-15T05:20:06Z")
Bureau of Vehicle Motors, Motor of Jesus… Hey, I’m just kidding. Mary was a great gal. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/13 "2005-02-15T05:52:56Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Just to point out that we still have the open question of why “BVM” is the SOP usage among Catholics, as opposed to referencing the lady as “Saint Mary” with or without an epithet to make sure you know it’s Jesus’s Mother being referred to. > > I think **WRS** is paying attention to the “Blessed” title given to persons who have been beatified but not yet canonized, and hence wondering why that is applied to the uber-saint of Catholicism. The other point worth making is that Catholics, or at least the ones I know, generally refer to her as \*Our Lady \* (cf the French _notre Dame_, or the Italian _Madonna_). Her extra-special “super-saint” status is inherent in the fact that she alone is referred to this way. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/14 "2005-02-15T06:10:00Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > The early church, in company with Eastern Orthodoxy to the present, operates on a standard of sainthood being recognized first by the locals who knew the late saint and then being ratified by a synod or patriarch or somebody ( **yBeayf** or **rocking chair** will have to specify who does the ratification; I forget). Almost all the early saints were “spontaneously” acknowledged in this way – including my namesake. Formal canonization was a later development, though I’m not sure when it got started. I don’t know, either, but I think it was still true quite late in the middle ages (maybe 11th century???) . I also believe this custom didn’t dissapear spontaneously in the catholic church, but was at some point formally forbidden by the Vatican, which reserved canonization to itself. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/15 "2005-02-15T06:11:40Z")
> [@](#): > > The other point worth making is that Catholics, or at least the ones I know, generally refer to her as Our Lady (cf the French notre Dame, or the Italian Madonna). Her extra-special “super-saint” status is inherent in the fact that she alone is referred to this way. Indeed, whenever you see a Catholic reference to “Our lady of…”, it’s Mary. Often, this is a reference to a particular apparition of Mary: For instance, “Our Lady of Guadalupe” is Mary as she appeared in Guadalupe, Mexico (in this guise, she’s the patron saint of the Americas). Other times, it’s a reference to something she’s patron saint of: Sports teams at Catholic schools will often address a prayer to Our Lady Queen of Victory, for instance. There are a lot of causes that need patron saints, and being the saint of mothers, Mary ends up picking up the slack on a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/16 "2005-02-15T11:10:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are a lot of causes that need patron saints, and being the saint of mothers, Mary ends up picking up the slack on a lot of them. Nota bene: Usually some particular Marian aspect is singled out for the patronage. For instance, the patron of the United States is Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, while for the Americas in general the patron is Our Lady of Guadalupe. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-mary-mother-of-jesus-canonized/290133/17 "2005-02-15T13:13:49Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > But in churches called “Saint Mary’s,” is it the BVM or, say, Saint Mary Magdalen or some Saint Mary Somethingortheother? > > WRS The church I grew up in was Saint Mary of the Asumption. We just referred to it as “Saint Mary’s”. But you’re right, Catholics rarely refer to HER as “Saint Mary”. But I grew up calling her the “Blessed Mother”, as my parents did.