# Was Metta World Peace's elbow to Harden's head accidental or deliberate? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 25, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866 "2012-04-25T00:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/21 "2012-04-25T16:35:31Z")
How could it be deliberate? > [@](#): > > His publicist, Courtney Barnes, said that World Peace chose Metta as his first name because it is a traditional Buddhist word that means **loving kindness and friendliness towards all** From Wikipeadia ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/22 "2012-04-25T17:32:44Z")
If you can’t trust a man named World Peace then who can you trust? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/23 "2012-04-25T17:36:02Z")
Seven game suspension? He should have got seven months in jail. He could have killed that dude with a flying elbow like that. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/24 "2012-04-25T17:58:13Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > If you can’t trust a man named World Peace then who can you trust? On the contrary, you _never_ trust a man named “World Peace”! Also known as the “Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard Effect”. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/25 "2012-04-25T18:01:54Z")
Deliberate. Nobody would play ball with a guy who just happened to threw elbows around like that. Although, when World Peace elbows you to the head, you have to have been doing something terribly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/26 "2012-04-25T18:24:15Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Seven game suspension? He should have got seven months in jail. He could have killed that dude with a flying elbow like that. You over-estimate David Stern’s power. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/27 "2012-04-25T18:29:03Z")
It was clearly deliberate, but I’m willing to concede a caveat. I don’t know that Artest was trying to ring Harden’s bell. I think he was caught up in his celebration and noticed Harden coming into his space to check him and he swung the elbow to clear him out, as if he were corralling a rebound. There was a complete absence of thought. Of course wildly throwing elbows to clear people out is wrong, and not being aware of what you are doing on a court is wrong, but perhaps those are somewhat less malicious than sizing a guy up and planting your elbow in his temple. All that said, he absolutely should have been suspended for the rest of the season. Harden was hurt and may be out a while, head injury is a serious issue these days and shots to the head need to be treated more severely and you simply cannot have a worse “prior offense” than the Melee. If anyone should be on a zero-tolerance policy it’s Artest. In the back of my head I was thinking the Thunder should have cleared the bench and come out swinging. Sure, they’d all have been suspended and fined but it would have clearly been defended in the media and the fines and suspensions on Artest would have to be much higher if he’d started a second brawl. Stern would have absolutely panicked if a big fight broke out over Artest’s actions again. Tactically, making it so Artest started a brawl would have been the best possible outcome for the Thunder when it comes to ousting the Lakers from the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/28 "2012-04-25T18:30:55Z")
Metta World Peace’s motto: Think globally, act out locally. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/29 "2012-04-25T18:35:08Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > In the back of my head I was thinking the Thunder should have cleared the bench and come out swinging. Fortunately, the NBA got serious about punishing that kind of thing years ago and it doesn’t happen much anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/30 "2012-04-25T18:50:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Fortunately, the NBA got serious about punishing that kind of thing years ago and it doesn’t happen much anymore. Yeah, but in this one rare case with Artest I think it’d have been worth the hit. Artest would get all the heat and blame. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/31 "2012-04-25T19:22:12Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > You over-estimate David Stern’s power. I believe it would have been within Stern’s power and province to simply announce, along with the suspension, that the NBA was providing the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office with all relevant video. While I doubt any actual prosecution would have followed, the implication of the possibility would have been a strong message. For symbolism, if nothing else, the suspension itself should have been calculated to preclude any possibility of MWP appearing in this year’s playoffs, or in (at least) the first game of the next season. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/32 "2012-04-25T19:46:50Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I believe it would have been within Stern’s power and province to simply announce, along with the suspension, that the NBA was providing the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office with all relevant video. No, trying to get a player prosecuted is a terrible idea and it probably would have provoked some serious labor unrest. I am sure the district attorney has ESPN and YouTube, and they can make their own decision about prosecuting the guy without grandstanding from David Stern. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/33 "2012-04-25T19:55:41Z")
I might’ve given him the benefit of the doubt (due to his relatively angelic recent behavior) had this happened after a big shot at the end of the game. But with his team being down 10 points in the 2nd quarter? Nah. I do agree with others that he may not have been trying to hit Harden in the head. I don’t think that he even knew that it was Harden there as opposed to another Thunder player. But to throw such a reckless elbow deserves a major suspension. He really could’ve killed someone if that elbow landed in another spot. I do think that Stern did give him a bit of break due to 2 factors: 1. He didn’t go after Harden and could not have known that he was going to hit his head. 2. The Lakers would be severely handicapped in the Playoffs without MWP, and the NBA can’t afford to lose the SoCal-based revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/34 "2012-04-25T20:18:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, trying to get a player prosecuted is a terrible idea and it probably would have provoked some serious labor unrest. I am sure the district attorney has ESPN and YouTube, and they can make their own decision about prosecuting the guy without grandstanding from David Stern. I didn’t say he should _try_ to get him prosecuted, just acknowledge, once, the fact that such events might, in some circumstances, be larger than his own jurisdiction. I’d call that part of his job, not grandstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/35 "2012-04-25T20:21:45Z")
I would just like to mention that when I heard the name change (I don’t follow b-ball) and saw the video the following things happened: The needle on my irony meter hit the WTF pin so hard it sheared the pin off. The needle then spun around for several seconds at about 1500 RPM before flying off and breaking the glass covering it. At this point smoke began to pour from the back of the unit, there was a large sprooong noise and what looks like a broken spring is dangling from the unit. Guess I am in the market for a new irony meter. Do they make them with overload protection now? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/36 "2012-04-25T20:23:57Z")
Jimmy Kimmel said something like, “he aimed a little high with the name change; maybe he should have gone with Metta Recycle Your Cans or something like that.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/37 "2012-04-25T20:28:46Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I didn’t say he should _try_ to get him prosecuted That’s what he’d be doing if he made a public announcement about sending game footage to the DA, and that is definitely how those actions would be viewed. Putting aside the question of whether or not World Peace _deserves_ criminal charges - because I can understand the idea even though I’m skeptical - it would be a huge problem for Stern if the NBA players felt he was actually trying to bring the wrath of law enforcement down on a player. He’s in charge of discipline for the NBA, not criminal investigations: his decisions about suspensions are independent of what a prosecutor does. There have been a few instances where sports leagues have cooperated with the prosecution of players for stuff they did on the field, but you don’t see them trying to get the government to prosecute players for illegal hits. If someone wants to prosecute World Peace for that elbow, they’ll get in touch with the Lakers and the NBA. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/38 "2012-04-25T20:51:03Z")
Out of curiosity, other than criminal charges, would Harden or the Thunder have some civil recourse? Yes, I know anybody can sue anybody, but I wonder if the NBA has some sort of immunity to civil liability in their contracts. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/39 "2012-04-26T18:49:34Z")
Harden has been cleared to play, by the way. He could have played Wednesday, but was held out because the game did not mean anything for the Thunder. He’ll be on the court when the team begins its playoff series over the weekend. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866/40 "2012-04-26T19:09:47Z")
Deliberate. Probably not head hunting, but clearly intended to give a shot to somebody and clear them out. I wanted to believe MWP had turned over a new leaf, but it’s clear he still has no impulse control. I don’t think the NBA could have justified anything longer than 7 games. Most flagrant elbows result in 1 or 2 game suspensions. Punches draw much longer suspensions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-metta-world-peaces-elbow-to-hardens-head-accidental-or-deliberate/619866.md?page=3)