# Was NBC right to fire Peter Arnett? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 31, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431 "2003-03-31T13:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/41 "2003-03-31T19:31:29Z")
The value of Arnett’s comments can be judged by the number of deaths he has caused. At this point, regardless of whether you think the invasion is right or wrong, the outcome that results in the fewest deaths (on BOTH sides) is a quick Coalition victory. The stronger the Iraqi defense, the longer this will go, and the more people will wind up dead as a result. The Coalition will not give up until the job is done, and the Iraqis cannot stand against them forever. Arnett’s ludicrous “the war plan has failed because of Iraqi resistance” comment does nothing but bolster their confidence, and can only draw out the inevitable outcome. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/42 "2003-03-31T19:37:03Z")
> [@](#): > > In the April 5 issue of TV Guide, Arnett said he felt he had found redemption reporting on the current war. > > “I was furious with (CNN founder) Ted Turner and (then-CNN chairman) Tom Johnson when they threw me to the wolves after I made them billions risking my life to cover the first Gulf War,” Arnett told TV Guide. > > “Now (Turner and Johnson) are gone, the Iraqis have thrown the CNN crew out of Baghdad, and I’m still here,” he said. “Any satisfaction in that? Ha, ha, ha, ha.” > > He said the Iraqis allowed him to stay in Baghdad because they respect him and “see me as a fellow warrior.” This guy is out of his very large gourd. ---
**Author:** ![ThoughtPolice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@ThoughtPolice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThoughtPolice)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/43 "2003-03-31T20:07:31Z")
Well, I guess we could at least agree that there is a price for being a “fellow warrior” with the Iraqi regime. ---
**Author:** ![mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmm.forbidden_doughnut)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/44 "2003-03-31T20:20:27Z")
It was my feeling from reading the transcript that each individual statement by Arnett was not particularly damning (despite its questionable veracity) but put all together, I think it represents aid and comfort to the enemy. No, there is no doubt that the US will win, but if, by encouraging the Iraqis to dig in, continue to fight and resist, and the US will go away, then he is responsible for the lives lost on both sides, civilian and military. **tvaa,** you said, " Next they’ll claim that speaking the truth lets “the enemy” know too much. . ." isn’t that the same thing that spies do when they sell secrets to our enemies? That’s called treason and is punishable by death in the US. \*\*stoly, \*\* I must agree. He’s sounds like so much the back-slapper. I’m almost surprised he didn’t ask the “interviewer” to drop trou so he could kiss his arse. What a :wally mmm… ---
**Author:** ![djbdjb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@djbdjb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djbdjb)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/45 "2003-03-31T20:24:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\* Dude, I think Dubya is a dangerous twit who couldn’t think his way through a game of Tic Tac Toe, but … > \*\* If you were a **really** good debater, you might be able to make stick a comment like this: “Even though Dubya has a college degree from Yale, and an MBA from Harvard, Martin Sheen would cream him at Tic Tac Toe.” ---
**Author:** ![Boo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@Boo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/46 "2003-03-31T20:35:10Z")
Arnett is the guy who reported the US used sarin gas in Vietnam,right?..then it was found out that wasn’t true. CNN then fired him and a couple more people. The guy doesn’t need a gun to his head to report false information. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/47 "2003-03-31T20:37:16Z")
Wanna know why Shrub went to Harvard’s MBA program? Because he got his dumb fratboy ass stone-cold rejected from the University of Texas School of Law, and nobody gave a shit about MBA’s in the 1970s so it was easy to get into Harvard with a C average. I repeat: The man is a dangerous twit. ---
**Author:** ![mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmm.forbidden_doughnut)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/48 "2003-03-31T20:41:36Z")
Well, now that we know he prides himself on being a “fellow warrior” with the Iraqis, we know what this guy is capable of: - using chemical weapons on unsuspecting civilian populations. - surrendering under a white flag of truce and then attacking. - using civilians as sheilds. - torturing and murdering POWs. - forcing children to fight. - forcing civilians to carry weapons through checkpoints. - terrorist suicide bombings. - executing countrymen who refuse to fight. All of this per this cnn [article](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/28/sprj.irq.war.crimes/index.html) :rolleyes: mmm… ---
**Author:** ![mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmm.forbidden_doughnut)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/49 "2003-03-31T20:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Even the part where I say Dubya couldn’t figure out the end game for a round of Tic Tac Toe, **Bricker**? 😃 \*\* Guys, in the interest of fairness, you must concede that 50% of people who play Tic Tac Toe lose. 😛 d&r mmm… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/50 "2003-03-31T21:17:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > Because he got his dumb fratboy ass stone-cold rejected from the University of Texas School of Law I was able to find [cite of unknown reliability](http://victorian.fortunecity.com/brambles/499/Bush/LawSchool/lawschool.html). Do you have a better one? > [@](#): > > , and nobody gave a shit about MBA’s in the 1970s Try telling that to the Harvard MBAs! At the request of my company CEO, I interviewed a new Harvard MBA in the late 1970’s or early 1980’s. I asked what area of insurance he wanted to work in, such as claims, underwriting, accounting, etc. He was surprised by the question. He had assumed he would go straight into the executive suite. AFAIK MBAs from top schools like Harvard were in high demand at that time. > [@](#): > > so it was easy to get into Harvard with a C average. cite? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/51 "2003-03-31T21:37:29Z")
Cite: _Newsweek_’s 2000 election-season campaign profile of George W. Bush, published sometime around the conventions in the summer of 2000. Sorry, the article does not appear to be online anywhere, though it’s easy enough to confirm that Harvard Business School was Dubya’s backup for UT Law. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/52 "2003-03-31T21:52:13Z")
—Guys, in the interest of fairness, you must concede that 50% of people who play Tic Tac Toe lose.— No, experienced players almost always play to draw with a similarly experienced player. The number of games are not only finite, but fairly easy for the average person to learn how to counter any set of starting moves to attain at least a draw. ---
**Author:** ![mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmm.forbidden_doughnut)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/53 "2003-03-31T22:07:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*—Guys, in the interest of fairness, you must concede that 50% of people who play Tic Tac Toe lose.— > > No, experienced players almost always play to draw with a similarly experienced player. The number of games are not only finite, but fairly easy for the average person to learn how to counter any set of starting moves to attain at least a draw. \*\* My point is that, if someone wins, someone else _must_ lose. How can two people _tie_ at tic tac toe? There are 9 squares. Therefore, someone must win and someone must lose. So, for every winner, there is a loser. Ergo, 50% lose. ---
**Author:** ![Figimingle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Figimingle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Figimingle)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/54 "2003-03-31T22:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by mmm… forbidden doughnut_ > My point is that, if someone wins, someone else must lose. How can two people tie at tic tac toe? There are 9 squares. Therefore, someone must win and someone must lose. So, for every winner, there is a loser. Ergo, 50% lose. Since the only way to win at tic-tac-toe is to get three of your own symbol in a row, and it is possible to fill all the squares of the grid without doing that, it is entirely possible to come to a draw. No 3 in a row, nobody won. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Mexico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f6c823/32.png) [@Roger\_Mexico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_Mexico)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/55 "2003-03-31T22:39:14Z")
NBC had every right to fire Arnett, because he told the truth. Just like CNN fired him when he told the truth about Operation Tailwind. Arnett should have paid attention to the legal case of those Fox journalists who were fired for refusing to lie. They initially won their whistleblower case, but it was overturned on appeal. [http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/031303Varolli/031303varolli.html](http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/031303Varolli/031303varolli.html) The message? To keep your job as a journalist, you have to lie. ---
**Author:** ![mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@mmm.forbidden\_doughnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmm.forbidden_doughnut)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/56 "2003-03-31T22:58:16Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Figimingle \* \*\*Since the only way to win at tic-tac-toe is to get three of your own symbol in a row, and it is possible to fill all the squares of the grid without doing that, it is entirely possible to come to a draw. No 3 in a row, nobody won. \*\*[/QUOTE Yes, you are right. What was I thinking? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/57 "2003-03-31T22:59:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I guess this serves as notice that objective reporting on this war will not be tolerated. All reporters are required to break their arms waving Old Glory/ the Union Jack, and they can never, under any circumstances, report that we are having any problems with our slimy little invasion. \*\* I guess that would depend on if one believed Arnett’s comments fall under the category of “objective reporting” now doesn’t it? It clearly wasn’t a “just the facts” session, it was Arnett’s opinion being solicited, and being provided. His comments are online, so I leave the exercise of determining their position on the “objective” scale to the reader. I agree that objective reporting is something to strive for and something no one should be fired for. It is something we all desperately need. However, regardless of Mr Arnett’s statements, and his intents, this interview WILL be used, perhaps out-of-context, perhaps subtly mistranslated, to further the propaganda war. It would be within the perrogatives of MSNBC et. al. to determine if giving propaganda material(regardless of how it was intended) to the Iraqi government is a terminable offense. Was it right to fire him? I don’t know, nor do I feel qualified to judge. I would tend to think that a journalist in a city under seige would be somewhat careful in their relations with the official media of that city(especially if it is an official arm of a regime that has thrown out or “misplaced” journalists in the past). Turning down a request for an interview could be used against us(or him directly), and going on TV with a “Ha Ha, coalition forces will be here in a few minutes and you’re going down!” type message would probably be unwise as well. Many of his comments seemed just to be mild sucking-up to the people who were putting him on the air and who, thus far, hadn’t thrown him out of the city(or made him “disappear”). From my reading of the transcript there wasn’t really much meat there. Characterizations of his comments like > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Shodan_ > \*\*I found his characterization of the Iraqi system of torture and murder of their citizens as a “government’s requirements of discipline” to be somewhat beyond naive. > > The line between reporter and Iraqi apologist is not a fine one, and I think he has stepped well over it.\*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bricker_ > **He said the US was “delaying the war” for a week. That’s not true.** > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jackmannii_ > **a correspondent who could not resist emphasizing his role as an Administration opponent on state-run Iraqi TV in wartime (“Your strategy’s working great, fellas!”).** > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by stolichnaya_ > **The interview is so congratulatory and synchophantic that I can’t see any other way to deal with it.[than to terminate Mr. Arnett]** are inaccurate at best. **Shodan’s** summary was drawn from this quote > [@](#): > > ARNETT: One other point. I’ve been mainly in Baghdad in the past few weeks. But, clearly this is a city that is disciplined, the population is responsive to the government’s requirements of discipline and my Iraqi friends tell me there is a growing sense of nationalism and resistance to what the United States and Britain are doing. I’ll leave it to the reader to determine if the sole source of discipline and responsiveness to government directives is the threat of torture and murder of their citizens. Note that our fellow SDMB posters **Collounsbury** and **istara** have also related a growing sense of nationalism and resistance to coalition activities. The single anecdote(related by **istara** IIRC) of ex-pats(who have nothing to fear from Saddam because they’re out of his reach in another country) coming back to Iraq to fight coalition forces gives a person pause. If Bhagdad is disciplined and the Iraqi forces fighting determinedly because of some fear of reprisal from Saddam(torture or murder for those who defy government orders) then what motive is bring ex-pats back? The quote **Bricker** was condensing for us was this piece > [@](#): > > America is re-appraising the battlefield, delaying the war, maybe a week, and re-writing the war plan. The first war plan has failed because of Iraqi resistance now they are trying to write another war plan. Again, I leave it to the reader to determine if our fellow SDMB poster’s summary was accurate. I was unable to determine which portion of Mr Arnett’s comments **Jackmannii** was referring to. Similarly **stolichnaya’s** claim of the interview being “congratulatory and synchophantic” seems to be a subjective judgement. I see it as somewhat synchophantic, but I don’t feel it is everyone’s job to help the US win a propaganda war and I disagree with the “congratulatory” label. Mr. Arnett did not discuss success or failure of any military conflicts or condone/condemn any tactics. If anything it was praising the common people(you remember them, right? The one’s we’re there to “liberate”?) of Iraq for keeping thier heads when their city is under bombardment. When it was London under bombardment we called it bravery and respected the discipline that kept the British from running in the streets. Was it because they feared Churchill would torture and murder them if they fled to the countryside? Why is it so hard to imagine the Iraqi people as being as proud and stubborn about “our island” as the British were? Why is it so hard to recognize their courage and resolve? Why would such recognition make someone an “arse-kisser”? Make no mistake, they do have courage and resolve. We may believe that what they’re fighting for shouldn’t be defended, but that doesn’t negate courage on the part of the defender. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/58 "2003-03-31T23:56:13Z")
According to Brit Hume on Fox News, Arnett has been hired by the UK Daily Mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Figimingle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Figimingle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Figimingle)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/59 "2003-04-01T00:05:49Z")
Mtgman – I think it was the sum of a number of comments that Jackmannii was responding to when he summarized > [@](#): > > a correspondent who could not resist emphasizing his role as an Administration opponent on state-run Iraqi TV in wartime (“Your strategy’s working great, fellas!”). If you look at the transcript from CNN, these are comments such as" > [@](#): > > The first war plan has failed because of Iraqi resistance now they are trying to write another war plan. > [@](#): > > President Bush says he is concerned about the Iraqi people, but if Iraqi people are dying in numbers, then American policy will be challenged very strongly. … For that reason, the Pentagon keeps saying that the civilian casualties, particularly in Baghdad in the last three or four days, at the market places – the Pentagon says – well they are Iraqi missiles that land amongst the people." Both of these can be construed to be either praise for the Iraqi defense led by Saddam, or praise for the Iraqi people who might be rising up in the cities against Saddam as well as their determination to survive, whatever happens. Particularly the second, where what he says can be read as either “we all know _wink wink_ they’re really American missles” or “we all know _wink wink_ they’re Iraqi missles”. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431/60 "2003-04-01T00:46:40Z")
I saw those comments more along the lines of thinly veiled “I told you so’s” aimed at the Bush administration. War protestors did say the resistance would be stiffer than many of the American people were led(by both the media and the administration) to believe. I see simple truth in the statement that if civilian deaths rise that the Administration will face stiff opposition, both at home and on the international front. I didn’t hear a audio broadcast of the interview and I don’t see “_wink wink_” in the transcript, so I’m not quite willing to buy the second interpretation at the moment. If I could hear it and heard “_wink wink_” type pauses or inflections then I might be willing to go that route, but I saw it more as a sad comment on both sides fighting for propaganda ground while it is the civilians who died(regardless of who actually caused it). Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nbc-right-to-fire-peter-arnett/165431.md?page=4)