# Was Nero Wolfe's Fritz gay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578 "2006-05-20T23:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/41 "2006-05-24T01:26:46Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > You can’t see him with a porkpie hat? 😃 I can’t see him with Lily Rowan. Hell, I can’t see him with Saul Panzer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/42 "2006-05-24T02:03:09Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > In my opinion, the point of Saul isn’t that he’s gay or not gay, Of course not, but it’s still fun to speculate. Especially in the absence of information. Let’s face it, any modern writer who set up a household of four middle-aged men without any long-term romantic relationships with women would have a LOT of ‘splainin’ to do. Which may or may not be a good thing. > [@](#): > > it’s that Stout just plain does not give a damn about his creations’ sex lives. People who do are scraping the paint off a canvas because they think something wonderful is underneath. I say Stout knew exactly what he was doing, and it was a subtle admonition to mind our own business. To be honest, I think Wolfe did a good thing by making his main characters’ personal and sexual lives muted, sometimes to the point of nonexistence. It allows the personal and sexual lives of the various villains, victims and suspect to take center stage, while the detectives moved the plot along with their detecting. Some of the sex lives in the novels were quite gaudy – I’m thinking of the novel featuring a murdered satyr of a corporate tycoon who had a love nest in an apartment that featured very erotic nude paintings and whose main feature was a huge circular bed, where most of the suspects were women who visited the apartment for immoral porpoises. Many scenes took place in that apartment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/43 "2006-05-24T04:44:55Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > …I’m thinking of the novel featuring a murdered satyr of a corporate tycoon who had a love nest in an apartment that featured very erotic nude paintings and whose main feature was a huge circular bed, where most of the suspects were women who visited the apartment for immoral porpoises. Many scenes took place in that apartment. _Too Many Clients_. Published in 1960 (I looked it up), when Hugh Hefner and the Playboy Lifestyle and Philosophy were still mysterious and fascinating to many. I think this book’s a pretty good example, actually, of a writer succumbing to a fourteen year old boy’s idea of what sex, money and power must be like. Of course, that’s about what I _was_ when I first read it, so it seemed perfectly plausible at the time. But I also recall that the attitude of Archie and the other good guys was primarily bemusement, though Wolfe displays a surprisingly benign (and, come to think of it, heterosexual) attitude toward Yeager (the tycoon’s name, I think). There was _still_ no sex in that book, and absolutely no exploration of the emotions engendered, except for one cuckhold’s jealous violence directed at his wife. Were the several women involved jealous, content, aroused by the situation, ashamed? Did any of them have any particular feelings about their lover’s death? Not really, apparently: the question didn’t interest Stout. He was writing a detective story. The tycoon was killed, by the way, for reasons that had nothing whatever to do with his sex life. I don’t really have any strong opinions about casting the roles. Sydney Greenstreet did play Wolfe, I think, in a radio series. William Conrad had the bulk and the voice for it when he did it on TV in a not-that-good show. I never really watched many, but the casting for the A&E series seemed pretty solid. Hutton’s mugging and Chaykin’s constant shouting were off-putting, but I think that was the result of trying too hard to create excitement in a mystery series that in forty years managed exactly two action scenes, not counting the occasional punch in the ribs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/44 "2006-05-24T12:25:12Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > the casting for the A&E series seemed pretty solid. Hutton’s mugging and Chaykin’s constant shouting were off-putting, Chaykin had a comic relief aspect about him that I don’t associate with Wolfe, despite clutching the strap in the car, throwing javelins, etc. Otherwise he was well suited. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/45 "2006-05-24T12:40:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Chaykin had a comic relief aspect about him that I don’t associate with Wolfe, despite clutching the strap in the car, throwing javelins, etc. Otherwise he was well suited. Chaykin looked right, but he had a petulance about his portrayal that seemed totally out of my expectations. I’ve listened to a lot of performances of Nero Wolfe on audiobooks by various performers (including the guy who played saul Panzer in the A&E series), and they invariably portray Wolfe as always slow, considered, and coolly in control. Chaykin’s shouting Wolfe seems a significant departure. Incidentally, Thayer Dabid is supposed to have been a great Nero Wolfe in the pilot made circa 1977: > **[Nero Wolfe (TV Movie 1979) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076447/)** > > Nero Wolfe: Directed by Frank D. Gilroy. With Thayer David, Tom Mason, Brooke Adams, Biff McGuire. A wealthy realtor sends out dozens of copies of a book that paints the FBI in an unfavorable light. They harass her. So she turns to Nero Wolfe to get... It was supposed to be a series, but Thayer died in 1978. I’n not familiar with any earlier portrayals of Wolfe, because I’m a relative newcomer to the series. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/46 "2006-05-24T13:19:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Chaykin had a comic relief aspect about him that I don’t associate with Wolfe, despite clutching the strap in the car, throwing javelins, etc. Otherwise he was well suited. I often found Wolfe very funny. Between the occasional problems in dignity maintenance, his acid-tipped jibes at people who tried his patience, his quirky way of misleading (more often than telling a lie he hoped to be believed, he would tell truths in such a way that he’d be _dis_believed), the rare set-piece such as his hilarious performance in _The Silent Speaker_, and his role as straight man for Archie, I think Wolfe was often a comedic character. Read _Some Buried Caesar_ (worth it for the story alone, or if you want to meet Lily Rowan for the first time) for a look at how funny a serious detective story can be. It even has the equivalent of a seltzer-in-the-face gag. That said, it may be that Chaykin really wasn’t good. I thought he looked and sounded right, neither matching nor offending my imagination. It was the shouting that put me off, and I think that was just poor direction with the goal of creating loud excitement where there was meant to be quiet suspense. As **CalMeacham** notes, it made the character seem childish, because in an effort to increase the drama, Chaykin would be yelling about things that really did not call for it. Wolfe could shout and he could certainly be petulant, but not about _everything_. I’m just reluctant to blame Chaykin for that, because I’ve seen him act quietly before. Frankly, I thought one of the better recent takes on the characters came in a movie that maybe wasn’t even trying: a Bill Pullman/Ben Affleck flick called Zero Effect. Usually it bugs me when a movie mixes up its source materials for the sake of convenience (provided I’m even aware of it, which is rare), but I liked that movie a lot. The first scenes beautifully established the whole conceit of a reclusive, eccentric genius, whose sheer inability to confront anyone or anything outside his front door would be a fatal flaw were it not for the one person who can act as both vicar and sensor, and the unique problems and perspectives _that_ person’s role creates and requires. Then they chucked it so Pullman could get the girl, but it was still a good suspenseful movie so that was okay. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/47 "2006-05-24T14:29:21Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > Read _Some Buried Caesar_ I believe that was the first one I read. Funny is one thing, standing in the pasture avoiding the bull, but buffonery is another. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/48 "2006-05-24T14:44:29Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > I don’t really have any strong opinions about casting the roles. Sydney Greenstreet did play Wolfe, I think, in a radio series. William Conrad had the bulk and the voice for it when he did it on TV in a not-that-good show. > **[Nero Wolfe (TV Series 1981) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081906/)** > > Nero Wolfe: With William Conrad, Lee Horsley, George Voskovec, Robert Coote. The short-lived adventures of portly detective Nero Wolfe, who would rather eat and tend to his orchids than hit the streets tracking down leads. That's why he hired hunky... Lee Horsley as Archie Goodwin. Umm. [http://www.russmccubbin.com/matt%20houston.jpg](http://www.russmccubbin.com/matt%20houston.jpg) Uh, yeah. In light of the speculation regarding queer-seeming characters. Nice 'stache, Archie. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/49 "2006-05-24T14:54:59Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Chaykin looked right, but he had a petulance about his portrayal that seemed totally out of my expectations…Chaykin’s shouting Wolfe seems a significant departure. “No sandwiches for the police! NO SANDWICHES!!!” Okay, maybe he yelled a lot, but I LOVED this scene from one of the early episodes (was it _The Golden Spiders_? The one where Cramer cordons off the brownstone and makes all the suspects stay the night under Wolfe’s roof…Wolfe orders Fritz to prepare Smithfield ham sandwiches, on his homebaked bread, for the trapped guests). Too damn funny. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/50 "2006-05-24T15:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Wolfe orders Fritz to prepare Smithfield ham sandwiches, on his homebaked bread, for the trapped guests). Too damn funny. Yeah, that was a good one. Wolfe was making it VERY clear that the police were not welcome then. And now I want a ham sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![Ceejaytee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ceejaytee/32/2956_2.png) [@Ceejaytee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ceejaytee)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578/51 "2006-05-24T17:43:25Z")
I liked the A&E series. Chaykin yelled too much (Wolfe bellows pretty regularly, but Chaykin would yell at the slightest provocation) but he was very good otherwise. Excellent exchanges with Archie. Tim Hutton was a much better Archie than Lee Horsely, which isn’t saying much. William Conrad moved around too much. Wolfe’s a mountain–he only moves when he has to. **Evil Captor** , “The Black Mountain” is worth reading for the way it flips Archie and Wolfe’s relationship. Wolfe has to report to Archie, because Archie can’t speak the language(s). Wolfe does all the talking and Archie, for the most part, has to follow Wolfe’s lead on everything. It’s interesting in that respect. We also get glimpses of what Wolfe’s life must have been like when he was young. And watching Wolfe climb mountains is amusing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-nero-wolfes-fritz-gay/357578.md?page=2)