# Was Pope Pius XII actually passive in the holocaust? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-pope-pius-xii-actually-passive-in-the-holocaust/495798 "2009-05-08T22:23:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-pope-pius-xii-actually-passive-in-the-holocaust/495798/181 "2009-05-22T15:54:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Pius was juggling many different agendas while trying to remain as neutral as possible. Being neutral on the subject of Nazism is a moral fail. So we can add another thing Pius could have done - take a principled moral stand against evil. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-pope-pius-xii-actually-passive-in-the-holocaust/495798/182 "2009-05-22T15:57:38Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Addressed in my response to **villa**. In a nutshell your gripe is with the Catholic church as a whole, and not with any individual Pope. Oh no you’re quite wrong there. My gripe is with the church and individual Popes though I admit some Popes were not as bad as others. Pius was a moral coward. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-pope-pius-xii-actually-passive-in-the-holocaust/495798/183 "2009-05-22T16:00:39Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, but the pope did use diplomatic and subversive methods against the Nazis. So my question is, what do you want him to have done that he didn’t do, and what do you think would have been the consequences of him doing those things? I already listed what might have been done - since I am not an expert in what was done, I will stick to the general. consequences of additional subversion may have ranged from death and destruction for individuals as a group, additional support form Allied forces, and glory on earth eternally from god. It is all speculative and hardly worth discussing. As a diplomat, this is the nature of the game. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-pope-pius-xii-actually-passive-in-the-holocaust/495798/184 "2009-05-22T16:03:42Z")
> [@martu](#): > > Being neutral on the subject of Nazism is a moral fail. And this is a debate fail since Pius wasn’t neutral on Nazism as was posted WAY BACK at the beginning of the thread. > [@](#): > > So we can add another thing Pius could have done - take a principled moral stand against evil. He denounced Hitler in 39. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-pope-pius-xii-actually-passive-in-the-holocaust/495798/185 "2009-05-22T16:24:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > And this is a debate fail since Pius wasn’t neutral on Nazism as was posted WAY BACK at the beginning of the thread. > > He denounced Hitler in 39. Now I am confused, why did you write this then? > [@mswas](#): > > Pius was juggling many different agendas while trying to remain as neutral as possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-pope-pius-xii-actually-passive-in-the-holocaust/495798.md?page=9)