# Was Primordial man conscious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247 "2014-08-10T17:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/281 "2014-08-15T16:35:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That’s plain ridiculous. As I pointed out upthread, unconscious individuals would not have been consistently able to feed, shelter, and reproduce themselves. The pain of childbirth alone would have woken the women up. He hasn’t been talking about real consciousness all this time-He’s been talking about something he _calls_ “consciousness”. Perhaps we can refer to it as “goddyness” to keep it separate from the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/282 "2014-08-15T16:35:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, it does not. Go find another word, because “consciousness” already has a perfectly valid and accepted definition. Quit stealing words. Oh yes it does, in my humble view. Consciousness did not create itself, it needs no third person entity; its just us and God who are conscious; and we are extensions of him spreading a unique part of himself into humanity, which is destined to last forever. The science of God is this; he has some kind of extension , able to create a human body of flesh, and actually extend consciousness into it. Similar to a male putting spamadzoa into a female and life becomes a result of that, God places consciousness into the humans he wanted to begin a race of conscious humans. Why he created primordial humans first and let them live for so long, I just don’t know. Was he experimenting; possible. Was it just a stage meant to project another stage into the future; possible; one stage of a rocket is meant to propel another more meaningful stage, which carries the payload. It is of interest to me. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/283 "2014-08-15T16:38:52Z")
_Spamadzoa??_ edited to add: Someone else run with this one-I’ll get in too much trouble. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/284 "2014-08-15T16:46:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Spamadzoa??_ > > edited to add: Someone else run with this one-I’ll get in too much trouble. Sorry, I’m out. This is clearly witnessing regardless of that fact the OP claims otherwise because it’s one of the many words he doesn’t understand the definition of. He’s not interested in rational debate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/285 "2014-08-15T16:49:02Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Sorry, I’m out. > This is clearly witnessing regardless of that fact the OP claims otherwise because it’s one of the many words he doesn’t understand the definition of. > > He’s not interested in rational debate. I knew that from his other thread, which was just as much a mass of insanity as this thread is. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/286 "2014-08-15T16:52:20Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Sorry, I’m out. > This is clearly witnessing regardless of that fact the OP claims otherwise because it’s one of the many words he doesn’t understand the definition of. > > He’s not interested in rational debate. I am interested in debate, and I am interested in God and science, and see no need to limit either of the two from this debate. I have absolutely no needs or demands that those I debate with, to leave Atheism out of it; I have no chip on my shoulder that needs me to converse with others, only if they leave Atheism and its tendecy’s alone. I am not asking that Atheism be separated from science, and I will not let Theism be separate from science. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/287 "2014-08-15T16:54:29Z")
I’ve just read this thread in its entirety. Do I get my prize now? **Mickiel** , I want to understand what you say, and that means I have to understand the words you use and how you use them. Right? I mean, surely you want to be understood, and you realize that not everyone automatically understands what you mean. So a little glossary is worthwhile, I reckon. Please correct me if I’ve gotten something wrong, and I’d appreciate your filling in the gaps: **Religion** : a man-made construct that only imperfectly reflects God and spirituality **God** : I AM **Spirit(ual)**: Um. I’m still not sure on this one. I was going to go with something like “the presence of God in Man,” but you said something about a “spirit” between theists and atheists, and I didn’t follow that. **Primordial man/caveman** : Some species (or a series of species) of protohuman that lived before the “Adam Event;” essentially animals, without “consciousness” **Consciousness** : Sapience, sort of. Babies are conscious (by virtue of being human?), but animals are not. Humans were not conscious before the “Adam Event.” Consciousness is God made manifest in the human animal (?). **"Adam Event"** : Some point in human history where God imbued primordial humans (or just one?) with consciousness. Prior to this point, humans were animals; after this point, humans are, well, human. How am I doing so far? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/288 "2014-08-15T16:53:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I knew that from his other thread, which was just as much a mass of insanity as this thread is. Why are you reading it? I don’t read what I consider to be insane. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/289 "2014-08-15T16:58:15Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Why are you reading it? I don’t read what I consider to be insane. You can’t fight ignorance by ignoring it, bucky. Why are you posting it if you’re not trying to convince anybody? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/290 "2014-08-15T16:58:19Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Sorry, I’m out. > This is clearly witnessing regardless of that fact the OP claims otherwise because it’s one of the many words he doesn’t understand the definition of. > > He’s not interested in rational debate. > [@Mickiel](#): > > I am interested in debate, and I am interested in God and science, and see no need to limit either of the two from this debate. I have absolutely no needs or demands that those I debate with, to leave Atheism out of it; I have no chip on my shoulder that needs me to converse with others, only if they leave Atheism and its tendecy’s alone. **I am not asking that Atheism be separated from science, and I will not let Theism be separate from science**. I rest my case. Witnessing. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/291 "2014-08-15T16:59:21Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’ve just read this thread in its entirety. Do I get my prize now? Ask someone who admires sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/292 "2014-08-15T17:00:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You can’t fight ignorance by ignoring it, bucky. > Why are you posting it if you’re not trying to convince anybody? I got nothing better to do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/293 "2014-08-15T17:04:24Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I got nothing better to do. Then tell us more about spamadzoa-I must have missed that bit in biology class. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/294 "2014-08-15T17:09:38Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Ask someone who admires sarcasm. Well, I didn’t mean to be sarcastic[sup]\*[/sup], and I apologize for coming across that way. There are almost 300 posts in this thread; you have to admit, that’s a fair chunk of reading. [sup]\*[/sup][sub]Which, to be fair, is arguably out of character for me.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/295 "2014-08-15T17:12:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then tell us more about spamadzoa-I must have missed that bit in biology class. Spermatazoa fertilizes the ovum; the comparison I was after, was God’s ability to fertilize the human body with consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/296 "2014-08-15T17:16:30Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Well, I didn’t mean to be sarcastic[sup]\*[/sup], and I apologize for coming across that way. > > There are almost 300 posts in this thread; you have to admit, that’s a fair chunk of reading. > > [sup]\*[/sup][sub]Which, to be fair, is arguably out of character for me.[/sub] Well listen, if you are an Atheist, don’t you have the desire to express all things through that experience? Would you like it if someone asked you to subtract that from your experience and being, and then discuss things without that ingredient? Why should you? Well I am no different. Why should I discuss this subject and subtract my Theism from it? Especially when it is uniquely involved? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/297 "2014-08-15T17:27:05Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Spermatazoa fertilizes the ovum; the comparison I was after, was God’s ability to fertilize the human body with consciousness. Obviously the Spirit of God has many abilities, one of which is " Protozoan", he can extend it outside of himself and into humans and aggregate into colonies. They then can multiply, but each hold a distinct individual consciousness which has the potential to evolve. Something I think he did not give primordial man. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/298 "2014-08-15T17:30:10Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well listen, if you are an Atheist, don’t you have the desire to express all things through that experience? Would you like it if someone asked you to subtract that from your experience and being, and then discuss things without that ingredient? Why should you? Well I am no different. Why should I discuss this subject and subtract my Theism from it? Especially when it is uniquely involved? Holy shit! Almost 375 posts in [this mess of a thread of yours](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=703724), and you _still_ don’t know what an atheist is?? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/299 "2014-08-15T17:37:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Holy shit! Almost 375 posts in [this mess of a thread of yours](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=703724), and you _still_ don’t know what an atheist is?? About as much as you know what a Theist is. You think religion totally encompasses all theist; you’re simply wrong about that. Just as Atheism is growing, the amount of those who have completely left religion and have a strong belief in God is growing. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/300 "2014-08-15T17:45:28Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well listen, if you are an Atheist, don’t you have the desire to express all things through that experience? Would you like it if someone asked you to subtract that from your experience and being, and then discuss things without that ingredient? Why should you? Well I am no different. Why should I discuss this subject and subtract my Theism from it? Especially when it is uniquely involved? 😕 You may be responding to someone else here. I have not asked you to subtract anything of yourself or your beliefs. Quite the contrary; I’m trying to make sure I _understand_ you and your beliefs. So help me out. Based on my “glossary” above, am I correctly understanding the terms you’re using? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=16)