# Was Primordial man conscious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247 "2014-08-10T17:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/341 "2014-08-16T17:51:22Z")
The other completely silly thing about the OP’s hypothesis is that he’s defining “Primordial Man” as human ancestors that existed before consciousness came about, and then asking “Was Primordial Man Conscious”. Well, duhhhhh, NO!! So, even if we accept the completely non-scientific notion that God “gave” consciousness to some human ancestor, then of course those ancestors who lived before that event did not possess consciousness BY FUCKING DEFINITION. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/342 "2014-08-16T18:09:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Eh. Those of us who look to science to explain things admit that we don’t really know how the universe began. Saying “God did it” doesn’t do anything more than push the question back one level to “How did God come into being”? It adds more complexity than is needed since the universe could have come into being the same way God did. Putting “God” in the process does nothing but add an unnecessary step to the process. One thing I do know is that God created parts of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/343 "2014-08-16T18:11:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And, that shows that you are trying to go around what it is allowed in the forum, remember: it was you who linked to that, so stop dealing with very silly and irrelevant “evidence”. I answered a question; and evidence is evidence whether you define it as silly or irrelevant; one mans evidence is another mans folly. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/344 "2014-08-16T18:16:12Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > One thing I do know is that God created parts of himself. God has parts? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/345 "2014-08-16T18:22:34Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > God has parts? Yes, most definitely. Part of him is " Glory", or radiance; he emits a very powerful light from himself, and the bible reveals he created that and increased it. Part of him is 7 revealed " Great Spirits"; unknown what they exactly are and do, but in my speculation , everything that has a Spirit, has a consciousness that exist along with it. Now, if that much be true, its entirely possible that God may have at least 7 distinct conscious realities within him ; or what we humans could only define as " A mind." Which would be incredible; 7 minds working together in one being. Simply incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/346 "2014-08-16T18:23:47Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > God has parts? He’s supposed to be a guy, so he has to have at least _one_ part in order to qualify. The rest of the part collection is optional for an omnipotent. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/347 "2014-08-16T18:26:46Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Yes, most definitely. Part of him is " Glory", or radiance; he emits a very powerful light from himself, and the bible reveals he created that and increased it. > > Part of him is 7 revealed " Great Spirits"; unknown what they exactly are and do, but in my speculation , everything that has a Spirit, has a consciousness that exist along with it. Now, if that much be true, its entirely possible that God may have at least 7 distinct conscious realities within him ; or what we humans could only define as " A mind." Which would be incredible; 7 minds working together in one being. Simply incredible. The bible has an interesting quote, that strangely is yet another description of God that impresses me. It was describing Jesus sitting next to him on his throne, but it says Jesus was sitting next to " Power." Sitting on the right hand of " Power!" Astounding! He is called " Power!" Its a whole lot revealed in that. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/348 "2014-08-16T18:30:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He’s supposed to be a guy, so he has to have at least _one_ part in order to qualify. The rest of the part collection is optional for an omnipotent. No, he is not human, has no human parts. He is not flesh and has no human gender. " He" is just used as a descriptive means of helping us understand a bit more about him. You could call God " An IT", and that would be just as much descriptive as " The term He." A Being. A Spirit. He once was asked what he is, he responded, " I Am that I Am." Which really does not give us much. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/349 "2014-08-16T18:32:21Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > God has parts? Hung like a donkey. Seriously, ask him to show it to you. You could cripple a bitch with that thing. Luckily he can just heal her so… ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/350 "2014-08-16T18:42:09Z")
Reposting, because the first time got lost in the noise: > [@andros](#): > > **Mickiel** , I want to understand what you say, and that means I have to understand the words you use and how you use them. Right? I mean, surely you want to be understood, and you realize that not everyone automatically understands what you mean. > > So a little glossary is worthwhile, I reckon. Please correct me if I’ve gotten something wrong, and I’d appreciate your filling in the gaps: > > **Religion** : a man-made construct that only imperfectly reflects God and spirituality > > **God** : I AM > > **Spirit(ual)**: Um. I’m still not sure on this one. I was going to go with something like “the presence of God in Man,” but you said something about a “spirit” between theists and atheists, and I didn’t follow that. > > **Primordial man/caveman** : Some species (or a series of species) of protohuman that lived before the “Adam Event;” essentially animals, without “consciousness” > > **Consciousness** : Sapience, sort of. Babies are conscious (by virtue of being human?), but animals are not. Humans were not conscious before the “Adam Event.” Consciousness is God made manifest in the human animal (?). > > **“Adam Event”** : Some point in human history where God imbued primordial humans (or just one?) with consciousness. Prior to this point, humans were animals; after this point, humans are, well, human. > How am I doing so far? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/351 "2014-08-16T18:43:45Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Hung like a donkey. > Seriously, ask him to show it to you. > You could cripple a bitch with that thing. Luckily he can just heal her so… I thought it rather funny, but the bible actually refers to some blacks in history, being hung like a donkey or a horse in Ezk. 23:20; I think this is also in Straight Dopes archives! ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/352 "2014-08-16T18:53:22Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’ve just read this thread in its entirety. Do I get my prize now? > **Mickiel** , I want to understand what you say, and that means I have to understand the words you use and how you use them. Right? I mean, surely you want to be understood, and you realize that not everyone automatically understands what you mean. > > So a little glossary is worthwhile, I reckon. Please correct me if I’ve gotten something wrong, and I’d appreciate your filling in the gaps: > > **Religion** : a man-made construct that only imperfectly reflects God and spirituality Quote > > Correct. > Quote > **Spirit(ual)**: Um. I’m still not sure on this one. I was going to go with something like “the presence of God in Man,” but you said something about a “spirit” between theists and atheists, and I didn’t follow that.Quote > > Spirit is something not human, we all have this component in us, we just call it consciousness > Quote > **Primordial man/caveman** : Some species (or a series of species) of protohuman that lived before the “Adam Event;” essentially animals, without “consciousness” Quote > Humans without consciousness, or a working one. > Quote > **Consciousness** : Sapience, sort of. Babies are conscious (by virtue of being human?), but animals are not. Humans were not conscious before the “Adam Event.” Consciousness is God made manifest in the human animal (?).Quote > > I don’t consider humans animals, I disagree with science on that. And yes, humans were not conscious before the Adam event. > Quote > **“Adam Event”** : Some point in human history where God imbued primordial humans (or just one?) with consciousness. Prior to this point, humans were animals; after this point, humans are, well, human. > ? Prior to Adam humans were humans, but in my theory they were not conscious of being human. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/353 "2014-08-16T19:05:14Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Yes, most definitely. Part of him is " Glory", or radiance; he emits a very powerful light from himself, and the bible reveals he created that and increased it. Would it be accurate to say that, for example, he had a very powerful light that was on at about a level of 10, and then he turned it up to 11? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/354 "2014-08-16T19:13:07Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Prior to Adam humans were humans, but in my theory they were not conscious of being human. Are you confusing the human soul with consciousness? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/355 "2014-08-16T19:22:20Z")
[quote=“andros, post:287, topic:695247”] > [@RaftPeople](#): > > Would it be accurate to say that, for example, he had a very powerful light that was on at about a level of 10, and then he turned it up to 11? Yes. Whatever he had, he has the power to increase it. Which is reflected in the power of consciousness he gave us, whatever level it was at first, we have the power to increase it. Which Is what I think some of evolution is; inherent power to change and increase. So God can evolve himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/356 "2014-08-16T19:24:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Are you confusing the human soul with consciousness? That can be confusing; some define the soul, as the physical body; Others define it as the spirit in man, so to those who define it as the body, then yes, the soul is different than consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/357 "2014-08-16T19:35:28Z")
[Quote=RaftPeople] Would it be accurate to say that, for example, he had a very powerful light that was on at about a level of 10, and then he turned it up to 11? [/quote] > [@Mickiel](#): > > Yes. Would it surprise you to know that there are other entities in the universe that can also turn it up to 11? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/358 "2014-08-16T19:36:31Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > That can be confusing; some define the soul, as the physical body; Others define it as the spirit in man, so to those who define it as the body, then yes, the soul is different than consciousness. Not clear, it seems that you told us early that “Spirit is something not human, we all have this component in us, we just call it consciousness” so do you consider consciousness to be what the soul is supposed to be for others in your definition? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/359 "2014-08-16T20:23:32Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Would it surprise you to know that there are other entities in the universe that can also turn it up to 11? No. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/360 "2014-08-16T20:24:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not clear, it seems that you told us early that “Spirit is something not human, we all have this component in us, we just call it consciousness” so do you consider consciousness to be what the soul is supposed to be for others in your definition? Possible, yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=19)