# Was Primordial man conscious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247 "2014-08-10T17:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/401 "2014-08-17T12:19:17Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Listen, since you are a Mod, this is my last response to you, because its no telling what you will do, as I continue to disagree with you. > > Listen, there were more blacks in those biblical lands and times than you care to know. And blacks were mixed into nearly every biblical land and nation; you cannot extract them from hardly any nation in those times. > > But I understand the effort to minimize black presence in the bible times; and I consider it racist. > > Peace on your journey. As long as you violate no rules, you have no thing to fear from the Mods. However, I will be glad to see you drop this topic, since it is tiring to have to explain just how silly Afro-Centrist nonsense generally is. The Olmecs were not African. Cleopatra was not African. Sumer was not a “black” society. There is more than enough richness of actual black history with Nubia, Meroë, Great Zimbabwe, Kongo, Lumba, and a host of other societies that it is rather sad to see the Afro-Centrists inventing “black” claims for Mesopotamia. However, with the raft of silly links you have posted, I recognize that you are happy in your delusions and, as you are unlikely to persuade anyone else that such odd claims have value, I will leave you to it. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/402 "2014-08-17T12:59:38Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > The depth of your ignorance is truly amazing. > Together with the “black” thing, this thread has gone from horseshit to diarrhea. Yet you are still reading it; which is even more amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/403 "2014-08-17T13:57:29Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Yet you are still reading it; which is even more amazing. No, I’ve stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/404 "2014-08-17T14:05:52Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > No, I’ve stopped. yeah sure ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/405 "2014-08-17T14:19:04Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Yet you are still reading it; which is even more amazing. Amazing, yes. What could possibly explain the phenomenon of people watching someone broadcasting what their rational minds would almost certainly perceive as nonsense? (Please treat that as a rhetorical question, at least until you’ve responded to my question about which texts make up the Bible.) ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/406 "2014-08-17T14:28:38Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Yet you are still reading it; which is even more amazing. There’s got to be a name for this. Does “morbid curiosity” cover it? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/407 "2014-08-17T15:07:20Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well I think this is a fairly presented article, to begin with; > > [http://www.gci.org/bible/africans](http://www.gci.org/bible/africans) Ok…which parts of that article do you find compelling? Skimming through it (and leaving aside how it’s not exactly a peer reviewed paper with anything like evidence backing it up), it seems to be a semantic discussion of what is or isn’t ‘black’, with the author basically attempting to define terms and speculate about how ancient peoples thought and wrote about themselves. It has no archeological evidence or DNA or forensic analysis attempting to demonstrate what you (or the author) are asserting. Plus, you are basically giving drive by links instead of citing specific parts of your link that you feel make your case and can be debated, basically throwing it back on the reader to slog through your drive by to attempt to puzzle out what your point is or what you are getting at. Hell, in several cases you are linking to pages that link to books that you want the reader to slog through to first determine which book might have whatever you think is evidence and then pick out that evidence. That’s the equivalent of me making an outrageous claim then linking to Google and telling you to go look it up…the evidence is there. 😛 And, of course, this is all a complete hijack of your own thread…not that the actual topic you seemed to want to discuss in the first place didn’t go completely off the rails pages ago of course, bogged down in your inability to define terms and your assertions about what consciousness is or isn’t based on your definitions and interpretation of God. BTW, kind of funny that you claimed earlier to reject the Abrahamic religions when you obviously are focused on them so much, ehe? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/408 "2014-08-17T16:06:43Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > There’s got to be a name for this. > Does “morbid curiosity” cover it? How about a question; If you are not interested in God, then why are you so interested? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/409 "2014-08-17T16:17:49Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > How about a question; If you are not interested in God, then why are you so interested? Everyone stops to listen to the crazy guy on the soapbox, every once in a while. His crazyness is amazing, no stunning! So we have chuckle, while the crazy man thinks he has an audience. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/410 "2014-08-17T16:20:16Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I disagree; I consider God as Great, and ANYTHING he allows to reside on his throne is great. Rev. 4:5, those 7 Spirits are on his Great throne! Sure, that’s a pretty good point but it was substantially countered in Raf. #410 “I’m not so sure about this whole 7 spirits thingy” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/411 "2014-08-17T16:28:47Z")
It’s easy. The seven spirits are the seven angels God tasked with running the world. Maybe **Mickiel** is a Yazidi, or he incorporates current events into his world view. It’s pretty common. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/412 "2014-08-17T16:30:25Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Everyone stops to listen to the crazy guy on the soapbox, every once in a while. > His crazyness is amazing, no stunning! > So we have chuckle, while the crazy man thinks he has an audience. When you have over 7,700 views on a thread, you don’t have to " think" you have an audience, you can know it. Conversely, when humans live over millions and millions of years and make hardly no advances, you can know they lack something. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/413 "2014-08-17T16:35:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > It’s easy. The seven spirits are the seven angels God tasked with running the world. Maybe **Mickiel** is a Yazidi, or he incorporates current events into his world view. It’s pretty common. I don’t know what the 7 spirits are, and I don’t know what they do. However I disagree that they were tasked with running the world, God gave the world over to satan long ago, and named him the " god of this world", which is why the world is in deception; deceptive spirits run it for now. We see this in 2 Corinth. 4:4. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/414 "2014-08-17T16:40:07Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Conversely, when humans live over millions and millions of years and make hardly no advances, you can know they lack something. Well, “millions and millions of years” is an exaggeration. Homo sapiens, anatomically modern man, is estimated to be about 195,000 years old, or at least that’s the oldest fossils we’ve found of them. But there’s a theory (and it’s not a universally accepted theory) that 50,000 years ago, something happened, and Homo sapiens, which was anatomically modern, became behaviorally modern…you saw a bunch of innovation in tools and trade. Other people don’t think this kind of “great leap” happened. Of course, none of this has to do with the bible or the story of Adam, which is a Jewish creation myth that was created by already behaviorally modern and civilized humans and is set about 6000 years before the present. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/415 "2014-08-17T16:51:13Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, “millions and millions of years” is an exaggeration. Homo sapiens, anatomically modern man, is estimated to be about 195,000 years old, or at least that’s the oldest fossils we’ve found of them. But there’s a theory (and it’s not a universally accepted theory) that 50,000 years ago, something happened, and Homo sapiens, which was anatomically modern, became behaviorally modern…you saw a bunch of innovation in tools and trade. Other people don’t think this kind of “great leap” happened. > > Of course, none of this has to do with the bible or the story of Adam, which is a Jewish creation myth that was created by already behaviorally modern and civilized humans and is set about 6000 years before the present. The story of a first man is not a myth, according to religion, science, logic and mathematics, plus reason, there had to be a first man, and a first woman. Unless you think machines mass produced us in groves. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/416 "2014-08-17T17:03:20Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > How about a question; If you are not interested in God, then why are you so interested? Morbid curiosity - I thought we settled this 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/417 "2014-08-17T17:06:38Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Morbid curiosity - I thought we settled this 😕 Evasion. At some level you are interested; we can be interested in things we don’t like or agree with. I am willing to bet many here are interested, but because of peer pressure, they would never admit it. But I can sense it, even if they stay in the closet. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/418 "2014-08-17T17:07:48Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > How about a question; If you are not interested in God, then why are you so interested? Somebody has got to step up and correct the vast amounts of misinformation you insist on spewing about. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/419 "2014-08-17T17:10:48Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Evasion. At some level you are interested; we can be interested in things we don’t like or agree with. > > I am willing to bet many here are interested, but because of peer pressure, they would never admit it. But I can sense it, even if they stay in the closet. Of course I’m interested, just like I’m interested in the bloody bodies strewn about any train wreck. It’s human nature to be fascinated by catastrophes. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/420 "2014-08-17T17:13:04Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > The story of a first man is not a myth, according to religion, science, logic and mathematics, plus reason, there had to be a first man, and a first woman. > > Unless you think machines mass produced us in groves. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Or were they both created _ex nihilo_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=22)