# Was Primordial man conscious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247 "2014-08-10T17:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/441 "2014-08-17T18:19:57Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Yes or no. > Can you see my colon. No, but I know its possible it has been seen before. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/442 "2014-08-17T18:24:44Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No. There were obvious first “people”. I’m saying the story of Adam and Eve in the Bible is a myth. It makes no sense to talk about “first” in evolution, since evolution doesn’t work like that. “First”, even when applied to a group implies that there is one individual just prior who is not “first”. The non-human mother does not give birth to the human. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/443 "2014-08-17T18:26:21Z")
Well sure, I had a doctors appointment about a month ago. At my age it’s better to be on the safe side. Anyway, since you have admitted you cannot in fact see through me I will cease to seek medical advice from you. But let’s get back to the topic at hand…the circus, train wrecks, and morbid curiosity. Let’s start from the top - do you like the circus? I love the circus. I really like the ladies that ride on the backs of the horses. I’m always amazed that they don’t fall off. The guys on the motorcycles who ride upside down around inside the steel cage a re really cool too! What’s your favorite? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/444 "2014-08-17T18:29:44Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > The plan to create them came first. A bunch of engineers are sitting around at a party, discussing the nature of the God, and who designed women. The mechanical engineer states that God must also be a mechanical engineer because “if you look at all the pulleys and levers that drive the body, how the tendons and muscles and bones all work together, well, it’s just amazing.” The chemical engineer says that no, God has to be a chemical engineer because “if you look at all the chemical processes that drive the body, how the hormones and the brain and the glands and everything else all interact, well, it’s just astounding.” The electrical engineer says that no, God has to be an electrical engineer because “if you look at the circuitry of the body, how the thousands upon millions of nerve cells transmit signals from one part to another, well, it boggles the mind.” The civil engineer speaks up last of all and says, no, God is definitely a civil engineer, because “only a civil engineer would run a sewer through a playground.” ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/445 "2014-08-17T18:30:15Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Well sure, I had a doctors appointment about a month ago. At my age it’s better to be on the safe side. > > Anyway, since you have admitted you cannot in fact see through me I will cease to seek medical advice from you. > > But let’s get back to the topic at hand…the circus, train wrecks, and morbid curiosity. > > Let’s start from the top - do you like the circus? I love the circus. I really like the ladies that ride on the backs of the horses. I’m always amazed that they don’t fall off. > > The guys on the motorcycles who ride upside down around inside the steel cage a re really cool too! > > What’s your favorite? The person who guesses your weight, age, beliefs and real reasons for viewing a thread! ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/446 "2014-08-17T18:34:46Z")
That’s not the circus, that’s the carnival. I admit though I like that guy too. I always ask them to guess my age and they always guess way too low. My daughter works out and is in really good shape. She has them guess her weight and they always guess way too low. She looks like she’d be 105 soaking wet but with all the muscle she has she’s a good bit heavier. Do you have them guess your weight or age? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/447 "2014-08-17T18:36:30Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Everyone stops to listen to the crazy guy on the soapbox, every once in a while. > His crazyness is amazing, no stunning! > So we have chuckle, while the crazy man thinks he has an audience. > [@Mickiel](#): > > The reasons you give for being interested is entertaining as well. You are transparent, I see through you. Perhaps Latro was too subtle for you. What he’s suggesting is that you are like the crazy guy on the soapbox, and we are the people who can’t keep themselves from listening for the next ridiculous thing he says. You, on the other hand, are convinced that an audience is the same as a following. You can no more see through our motivations than you can see through rock, yet you allow yourself to be deluded into thinking you can and that we are all actually, subconsciously, seeking your wisdom as a guide for our lives. We are not. Instead I’m afraid you are turning into our Emperor Norton, and you will be cast aside when some new shiny thing comes along. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/448 "2014-08-17T18:37:59Z")
**dropzone** , **Latro** , **Mickiel** , **zoid** , and EVERYONE ELSE. Stick to discussing the topic (whatever it is) and quit trading silly insults about who is or is not reading the thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/449 "2014-08-17T18:38:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > A bunch of engineers are sitting around at a party, discussing the nature of the God, and who designed women. > The mechanical engineer states that God must also be a mechanical engineer because “if you look at all the pulleys and levers that drive the body, how the tendons and muscles and bones all work together, well, it’s just amazing.” > > The chemical engineer says that no, God has to be a chemical engineer because “if you look at all the chemical processes that drive the body, how the hormones and the brain and the glands and everything else all interact, well, it’s just astounding.” > > The electrical engineer says that no, God has to be an electrical engineer because “if you look at the circuitry of the body, how the thousands upon millions of nerve cells transmit signals from one part to another, well, it boggles the mind.” > > The civil engineer speaks up last of all and says, no, God is definitely a civil engineer, because “only a civil engineer would run a sewer through a playground.” How often should an engineer consider God? Well from age 20-30 if things go right, its once in the mourning and once at night From age 30 to 40 if things don’t go wrong, they think half as often and twice as long From 40-50 they are reduced to thinking weekly From 50 to 60 now they are just calculating meekly From 70 to 80 the thoughts get harder to find Hey, just forget about it, take a cold shower and its all in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/450 "2014-08-17T18:39:52Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I would say more closer to 30-40,00 years ago, and if we can know and pinpoint the area, a garden in the middle east, we can then pinpoint even further. Of course that ignores the trouble of meaningless generations. 30,000 years (or more possible 300,000 as people that made and controlled fire arrived) points then to many lost civilizations and oportunities (we could had human colonies in other planets by now), if we assume that conciousness was there already. If we then consider a religious angle then this looks worse. There is no reason then to wait that long to choose a specific group of people and then say nevermind and dump them 2000 years later to include all humans. Unless the idea was to make us fight against each other. One would had to conclude that the god you prefer here is in reality [Coyote](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_%28mythology%29). A trickster god. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/451 "2014-08-17T18:45:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course that ignores the trouble of meaningless generations. 30,000 years (or more possible 300,000 as people that made and controlled fire arrived) points then to many lost civilizations and oportunities (we could had human colonies in other planets by now), if we assume that conciousness was there already. > > If we then consider a religious angle then this looks worse. There is no reason then to wait that long to choose a specific group of people and then say nevermind and dump them 2000 years later to include all humans. Unless the idea was to make us fight against each other. One would had to conclude that the god you prefer here is in reality [Coyote](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_%28mythology%29). A trickster god. Well in my view, God does have many tricks up his uncanny sleeve; I think they all are going to work and achieve what he wants to get done. I agree that Primordial man, early man, Homo whatever you want to label them, it does seem rather meaningless for God to have created humans before the creation of Adam; but he obviously did, so there must be a reason, of which I have few ideas and speculations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/452 "2014-08-17T18:54:54Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well in my view, God does have many tricks up his uncanny sleeve; I think they all are going to work and achieve what he wants to get done. Problem is that the bible admonishes the ones that claim to **know** what god is thinking. > [@Mickiel](#): > > I agree that Primordial man, early man, Homo whatever you want to label them, it does seem rather meaningless for God to have created humans before the creation of Adam; but he obviously did, so there must be a reason, of which I have few ideas and speculations. Missing the point, I was talking about all the hundreds, if not thousands of generations that came **after** the time you claim Adam was here. So besides pondering about the meaningless ones before Adam, the big problem you have is the realization that there was a mess of people and generations that suposedlely had consiousness but they also had a meaningless life until a tribe of hebrews appeared much, much later. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/453 "2014-08-17T19:03:20Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Problem is that the bible admonishes the ones that claim to **know** what god is thinking. > Missing the point, I was talking about all the hundreds, if not thousands of generations that came **after** the time you claim Adam was here. > > So besides pondering about the meaningless ones before Adam, the big problem you have is the realization that there was a mess of people and generations that suposedlely had consiousness but they also had a meaningless life until a tribe of hebrews appeared much, much later. I don’t think so; when Egypt came along, things really got going and has been going civilized ever since; those before Egypt, simply were setting things up, none of them who held consciousness in their society has been meaningless in my view. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/454 "2014-08-17T19:06:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Problem is that the bible admonishes the ones that claim to **know** what god is thinking. > > . Nobody really knows what God is thinking , and the bible has no characters who have claimed to know according to my studies. Only Jesus knew a bit, and even he admitted at times he did not know when God would do something. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/455 "2014-08-17T19:08:59Z")
So the Chinese were just playing house for 2000 years before the Egyptian empire? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/456 "2014-08-17T19:12:18Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t think so; when Egypt came along, things really got going and has been going civilized ever since; those before Egypt, simply were setting things up, none of them who held consciousness in their society has been meaningless in my view. Then we have the problem that all should had been gone after the flood, but then some desendant of Noah decided to start everything again in that area. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/457 "2014-08-17T19:13:27Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Nobody really knows what God is thinking , and the bible has no characters who have claimed to know according to my studies. Only Jesus knew a bit, and even he admitted at times he did not know when God would do something. Indeed, you then need to stop claiming that you do. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/458 "2014-08-17T19:16:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Then we have the problem that all should had been gone after the flood, but then some desendant of Noah decided to start everything again in that area. That’s no problem, the flood destroyed every human alive " In their areas they populated", and in my view the entire earth was not populated back then, and God is not stupid, ne need to flood barren unpopulated areas, so the flood was NOT global! And Noah had enough males and females to begin the repopulation of the earth. Just two humans can do that. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/459 "2014-08-17T19:17:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Indeed, you then need to stop claiming that you do. Please show me where I claimed that, or retract this please! ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/460 "2014-08-17T19:18:06Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > So the Chinese were just playing house for 2000 years before the Egyptian empire? The Egyptians played better historical house by far! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=24)