# Was Primordial man conscious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247 "2014-08-10T17:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/501 "2014-08-17T21:49:40Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Given his very tenuous grasp of theology and history are you really shocked about his views on geology? Given the serious lack of belief here in what God is able to do, I am not shocked at the inability to grasp my theology. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/502 "2014-08-17T21:50:26Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > No, he was created after the period was thawed out; why would God create him during an Ice period? And is it not reasonable to assume that God, who created the Ice period, could end it when he chooses? Then your timetable is off, chief. If he was crated ‘after the period was thawed out’ you are talking less than 10,000 years. Since you don’t really know much about the subject, it’s funny that you are speaking for the supposed God on this. Presumably S/He/It actually would know, and would know that human culture pre-dates the arbitrary time period you are attempting to delineate as when man became ‘conscious’. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/503 "2014-08-17T21:52:33Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Given the serious lack of belief here in what God is able to do, I am not shocked at the inability to grasp my theology. Oh we get it. We understand it completely and recognize it for the steaming pile of horseshit it is. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/504 "2014-08-17T21:52:34Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Given the serious lack of belief here in what God is able to do, I am not shocked at the inability to grasp my theology. “Can God make up a theory so self-contrdictory that even He can’t understand it?” ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/505 "2014-08-17T21:54:31Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > Meanwhile, I’m still waiting to hear why it’s obvious that Homo sapiens went extinct during the last ice age. Especially since you’re now claiming that Adam & decedents survived it. I have claimed no such thing! I claimed Adam lived after the ice age, you are simply on the offensive, trying to find fault somewhere; trying to discredit me in any manner that you can. You are putting YOUR words in my mouth; and I understand that. This whole debate is really not fair; its me, verses at least 20 of you; you need to go and get at least 50 more to make this thing fair. Some of you are resorting to putting false things in my mouth; a sign of desperation for sure. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/506 "2014-08-17T21:55:49Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I think Julian Jaynes book on consciousness is excellent, in fact I developed my theory based on some of his; and this is just theory, I cannot prove it. My favorite quote on Jaynes’ book is from Dawkins: [QUOTE=Richard Dawkins] It is one of those books that is either complete rubbish or a work of consummate genius, nothing in between! Probably the former, but I’m hedging my bets. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/507 "2014-08-17T21:56:58Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I have claimed no such thing! I claimed Adam lived after the ice age, you are simply on the offensive, trying to find fault somewhere; trying to discredit me in any manner that you can. You are putting YOUR words in my mouth; and I understand that. > > This whole debate is really not fair; its me, verses at least 20 of you; > > you need to go and get at least 50 more to make this thing fair. Some of you are resorting to putting false things in my mouth; a sign of desperation for sure. Then what did you mean by this? > [@Mickiel](#): > > Explain to me then, how ANY human could live through the Ice Age? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/508 "2014-08-17T21:59:48Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Then what did you mean by this? Listen, if the wooly mammoth, Tranny Rex, and Terdacto could not survive, in the words of the Incredble Hulk, " No puny human could." ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/509 "2014-08-17T22:00:27Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well then Adam lived at least 22,000 years ago; > > [Last Glacial Period - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_period) And this, where your source says the Ice age lasted until 12,000 years ago. How is that not claiming that he lived during the Ice Age?? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/510 "2014-08-17T22:00:56Z")
So then you do in fact claim that man went extinct during the last ice age? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/511 "2014-08-17T22:01:19Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > My favorite quote on Jaynes’ book is from Dawkins: My favorite quote from Jaynes " We are not continuous with the idiot hierarchy of speechless Apes!" ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/512 "2014-08-17T22:02:36Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > And this, where your source says the Ice age lasted until 12,000 years ago. How is that not claiming that he lived during the Ice Age?? Not during its peak, no. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/513 "2014-08-17T22:03:45Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > So then you do in fact claim that man went extinct during the last ice age? Yes I do, I think God discontinued those humans prior to Adam, YES! ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/514 "2014-08-17T22:05:49Z")
Again from your link: “The maximum extent of glaciation within this last glacial period was approximately 22,000 years ago.” Also, woolly mammoths survived the ice age just fine. What they didn’t survive was post-ice age climate change. And dinosaurs had a rather large disaster they didn’t survive, 65 million years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/515 "2014-08-17T22:06:32Z")
> [@Twoflower](#): > > And this, where your source says the Ice age lasted until 12,000 years ago. How is that not claiming that he lived during the Ice Age?? You can scrap, scrape, twist and accuse, but I still say the best thing you should do is go get 50 more members to help you in this debate. Its not fair that I debate just 20 of you. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/516 "2014-08-17T22:08:14Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > You can scrap, scrape, twist and accuse, but I still say the best thing you should do is go get 50 more members to help you in this debate. > > Its not fair that I debate just 20 of you. In other words you can’t refute the point. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/517 "2014-08-17T22:09:45Z")
Was Primordial man conscious? I think not, and I think that proves creation of Adam and consciousness with little doubt! ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/518 "2014-08-17T22:10:02Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > You can scrap, scrape, twist and accuse, but I still say the best thing you should do is go get 50 more members to help you in this debate. > > Its not fair that I debate just 20 of you. You think what you are doing is debating? Or should I ask if it is “just” debating? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/519 "2014-08-17T22:15:46Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > You think what you are doing is debating? Or should I ask if it is “just” debating? Yes I do. I know I am debating; now I expect some here to multi-define debating now, in an effort to break me down some, or " Catch me in something"; they must; and I understand that. When you pound on the beliefs of people, they are going to react. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/520 "2014-08-17T22:17:09Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > In other words you can’t refute the point. Sure I can, when Adam was created the Ice age was in retreat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=27)