# Was Primordial man conscious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247 "2014-08-10T17:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/601 "2014-08-18T16:49:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I have no idea why you felt a need to mention that you’re not authorizing any translation or version of the Bible. Would you please tell me why you mentioned it? No particular reason to speak of. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/602 "2014-08-18T16:53:12Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That article is about a dispute over the implications that the style of the art has for the sort of minds that created it, and not its age. > > It should also be noted that it’s from 2007, before the 2012 University of Saxony/Aix-Marseille University/Centre National de Prehistoire study that dated the rockslide that sealed the cave. Thank you for that. It seems as if that study sealed the deal as far as the date of the painting is concerned, **Mickiel**. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/603 "2014-08-18T16:58:37Z")
The consciousness of primordial man cannot be determined by art, it needs far more evidence in my view. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/604 "2014-08-18T17:01:09Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I have no idea why you felt a need to mention that you’re not authorizing any translation or version of the Bible. Would you please tell me why you mentioned it? > [@Mickiel](#): > > No particular reason to speak of. Then could I trouble you to actually answer the question(s) I did ask? Here it is (they are) again, for your convenience: > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Which version/translation? > > Or do you consider them interchangeable? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/605 "2014-08-18T17:09:08Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > The consciousness of primordial man cannot be determined by art, it needs far more evidence in my view. So when you think there’s a chance it might be fake, it matters…but when it is shown that it isn’t fake, it suddenly _doesn’t_ matter? What a bunch of malarkey. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/606 "2014-08-18T17:13:17Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Then could I trouble you to actually answer the question(s) I did ask? > > Here it is (they are) again, for your convenience: I don’t authorize versions of the bible; but I like this article; > **[Bible Matters--Is the King James Bible "Inerrant?"](https://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/KJV.htm)** > > A study into the King James only teaching, proving that it is an unreliable teaching and showing errors in the KJV ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/607 "2014-08-18T17:14:39Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > The consciousness of primordial man cannot be determined by art, it needs far more evidence in my view. What other evidence would you accept, and what other human activities of the period would leave physical traces behind? Spoken language certainly doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/608 "2014-08-18T17:15:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So when you think there’s a chance it might be fake, it matters…but when it is shown that it isn’t fake, it suddenly _doesn’t_ matter? What a bunch of malarkey. We were told for years that vitamins are good for us and needed; then science discovered we really don’t need them. As knowledge increases, so will the discovery of false information. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/609 "2014-08-18T17:17:07Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What other evidence would you accept, and what other human activities of the period would leave physical traces behind? Spoken language certainly doesn’t. They have not left solid evidence of consciousness, that’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/610 "2014-08-18T17:23:09Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > They have not left solid evidence of consciousness, that’s my point. But neither did Adam, did he? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/611 "2014-08-18T17:25:30Z")
> [@Uniqueorn](#): > > But neither did Adam, did he? His children certainly did. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/612 "2014-08-18T17:26:54Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > We were told for years that vitamins are good for us and needed; then science discovered we really don’t need them. > > As knowledge increases, so will the discovery of false information. Off-topic, and false. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/613 "2014-08-18T17:29:36Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t authorize versions of the bible; but I like this article; > > [Bible Matters--Is the King James Bible "Inerrant?"](http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/KJV.htm) Which Bible do you read? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/614 "2014-08-18T17:48:24Z")
Can we get back to the at what point did early man develop consciousness as we know it topic again? And this time, it might be more useful to leave Adam out of the discussion. Too much of a deus ex machina for a meaningful discussion (man pops in out of nowhere, fully formed and apparently with language, but no belly button). ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/615 "2014-08-18T17:55:56Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Can we get back to the at what point did early man develop consciousness as we know it topic again? And this time, it might be more useful to leave Adam out of the discussion. Too much of a deus ex machina for a meaningful discussion (man pops in out of nowhere, fully formed and apparently with language, but no belly button). I reserve the right to leave Adam in it. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/616 "2014-08-18T17:56:16Z")
Consciousness as we know it is probably still changing, it’s not like a switch was flipped 300,000 years ago. Our conscious minds now are incrementally more developed than say, people in medieval times. I don’t think self-consciousness is an on-off phenomenon. Is a bug conscious? A dog? A chimp? A dolphin? To some degree, yes, but to the same degree as a human? Doubtful. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/617 "2014-08-18T17:57:37Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Can we get back to the at what point did early man develop consciousness as we know it topic again? And this time, it might be more useful to leave Adam out of the discussion. Too much of a deus ex machina for a meaningful discussion (man pops in out of nowhere, fully formed and apparently with language, but no belly button). The trouble is, “consciousness as we know it” was never the topic of this thread. The OP has a personal definition of the word “Consciousness” that does not match any dictionary definition. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/618 "2014-08-18T17:58:37Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Our conscious minds now are incrementally more developed than say, people in medieval times. And you base this on what? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/619 "2014-08-18T18:00:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which Bible do you read? > **[The Best Bible Translation](https://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/bestbibletranslation.htm)** > > What is the most accurate Bible translation, the best Bible. Since you like and don’t like sites. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/620 "2014-08-18T18:02:09Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > And you base this on what? How about common sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=32)