# Was Primordial man conscious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247 "2014-08-10T17:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/161 "2014-08-13T15:54:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You’ve convinced a grand total of 0 people so far. I’d hate to see what one of your weaker theories looks like! > > But we await you submitting your “theory” to a peer reviewed journal and seeing the feedback you get. I hold absolutely no interest in convincing anyone here of anything. I am a member of this website, I hold the right to express myself as much as you do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/162 "2014-08-13T15:59:24Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I hold absolutely no interest in convincing anyone here of anything. Bull. If this was true you wouldn’t be in this thread throwing all this bs at us. You’re “not trying to convince us” the same way you’re “not religious”. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/163 "2014-08-13T16:01:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Bull. If this was true you wouldn’t be in this thread throwing all this bs at us. You’re “not trying to convince us” the same way you’re “not religious”. Oh its not you I am throwing it at; its the other Lions in the bushes that remain mostly unseen on websites , its them I am throwing it at; its not about you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/164 "2014-08-13T16:04:28Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Oh its not you I am throwing it at; its the other Lions in the bushes that remain mostly unseen on websites , its them I am throwing it at; > > its not about you. And I’m just here to label the tainted meat. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/165 "2014-08-13T16:09:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And I’m just here to label the tainted meat. And I am here to make the kill. To kill old traditional views that have seduced humanity, and show the young lions their true heritage. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/166 "2014-08-13T16:11:44Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I hold absolutely no interest in convincing anyone here of anything. That’s good, because your hypothesis is bunk. > [@](#): > > I am a member of this website, I hold the right to express myself as much as you do. I never said you didn’t. And when you post idiotic stuff, we have the right to point out that it’s idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/167 "2014-08-13T16:13:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s good, because your hypothesis is bunk. QUOTE > > Why are you reading it? > > Quote > I never said you didn’t. And when you post idiotic stuff, we have the right to point out that it’s idiotic. And I have the right to claim that your opinion of my views being idiotic, is vain useless response. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/168 "2014-08-13T16:21:14Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > And I am here to make the kill. > > To kill old traditional views that have seduced humanity, and show the young lions their true heritage. You are trying to kill reality by killing the language used to understand it. I reject your vagueness, your off-the-cuff redefinitions of common scientific terms, your denial of your own religious background and purpose, and your idea that you have the right to post a bunch of half-baked woo on a message board and not expect opposition from your betters. You will not make your kill here, I strongly suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/169 "2014-08-13T16:22:01Z")
I like giving the straight Dope truth about spiritual things , And I have been fighting the ignorance of that since 1973. A true story. It started at Western Michigan University, in Kalamazoo, Michigan; and I have fought it ever since. The only thing time can do with consciousness, is give it the space to grow from its origin of power. The Source! ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/170 "2014-08-13T16:23:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You are trying to kill reality by killing the language used to understand it. I reject your vagueness, your off-the-cuff redefinitions of common scientific terms, your denial of your own religious background and purpose, and your idea that you have the right to post a bunch of half-baked woo on a message board and not expect opposition from your betters. You will not make your kill here, I strongly suspect. I reject misguided intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/171 "2014-08-13T16:23:41Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I like giving the straight Dope truth about spiritual things , And I have been fighting the ignorance of that since 1973. > > A true story. > > It started at Western Michigan University, in Kalamazoo, Michigan; and I have fought it ever since. The only thing time can do with consciousness, is give it the space to grow from its origin of power. > > The Source! Preach it, Brother! ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/172 "2014-08-13T16:29:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Preach it, Brother! Well when I crossed Phi Beta Sigma in 1974, they named me " Preacherman." Because like now, back then I liked expressing myself, even when those like you try and reduce that right. Its not against this sites rules for me to express my views, but you act as if it is. As if my views are worthless and meaningless; I have fought that Spirit a long time, and I can see it very easily. Some people will silence you if they can, only because you fail to see things as they do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/173 "2014-08-13T16:32:47Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well when I crossed Phi Beta Sigma in 1974, they named me " Preacherman." > > Because like now, back then I liked expressing myself, even when those like you try and reduce that right. Its not against this sites rules for me to express my views, but you act as if it is. As if my views are worthless and meaningless; > > I have fought that Spirit a long time, and I can see it very easily. Some people will silence you if they can, only because you fail to see things as they do. I don’t want to reduce your right to express yourself, dude-just so long as we’ve just established that you are here to preach religion and not discuss science. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/174 "2014-08-13T16:35:21Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well when I crossed Phi Beta Sigma in 1974, they named me " Preacherman." > > Because like now, back then I liked expressing myself, even when those like you try and reduce that right. Its not against this sites rules for me to express my views, but you act as if it is. As if my views are worthless and meaningless; > > I have fought that Spirit a long time, and I can see it very easily. Some people will silence you if they can, only because you fail to see things as they do. Let us know when that cross gets too heavy. Maybe then we can convince you it’s just a figment of your imagination (which it is). ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/175 "2014-08-13T16:36:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t want to reduce your right to express yourself, dude-just so long as we’ve just established that you are here to preach religion and not discuss science. You have established nothing; I want to discuss the science and spirituality of this topic; your the one caught up on religion, not me; I am free of religion, and you can’t give me your religious handicap, and you cannot define the terms of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/176 "2014-08-13T16:38:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let us know when that cross gets too heavy. Maybe then we can convince you it’s just a figment of your imagination (which it is). Explain to me what makes you’re imagination more valid than mine? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/177 "2014-08-13T16:45:49Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Explain to me what makes you’re imagination more valid than mine? I believe we’ve been trying to point out that our old fuddy duddy reality is more valid than your bright and shiny imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/178 "2014-08-13T16:53:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I believe we’ve been trying to point out that our old fuddy duddy reality is more valid than your bright and shiny imagination. And the right to determine that one is imagination, and another is reality; why is it that only you have that power of determination and not me? What makes your power greater than mine? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/179 "2014-08-13T17:05:27Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > And the right to determine that one is imagination, and another is reality; why is it that only you have that power of determination and not me? What makes your power greater than mine? The next time you need a house built, hire an architect that uses her imagination instead of measurements to draw up the plans for your house and pick out what materials to use. Why not toss all your scientifically designed meds out the window and let your imagination determine how best to treat illnesses? Look at how much time we could save in the classroom if we just told the kids to imagine what history was like back then, and to just imagine what the correct answers are in math, science and geography! Imagine the advances in the computer field when we throw all that pesky reality out the window and just imagine! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247/180 "2014-08-13T17:09:50Z")
When you ask “Was primordial man conscious?”, what do you mean? If we could travel back in time, what would you be looking for that would tell you that whatever species of human we’re looking at is conscious but its ancestor 1000 years ago was not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-primordial-man-conscious/695247.md?page=10)