# Was rape permitted in the Bible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 20, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663 "2001-03-20T02:51:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/1 "2001-03-20T02:51:09Z")
We are all familiar with the commandments, “Thou shalt not steal” and “Thou shalt not kill”, but, as far as I know, there is no “Thou shalt not rape” commandment in the Bible. IIRC, the only “punishment” for rape in the Bible is that the man has to marry the victim. That sounds more like a punishment for the woman, doesn’t it? I know society was patriarchical in Biblical days, but this seems a bit extreme. What’s the straight dope? By the way, I am more familiar with the Old Testament than the New. ;j ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/2 "2001-03-20T03:20:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaveRaver \* > \*\*We are all familiar with the commandments, “Thou shalt not steal” and “Thou shalt not kill”, but, as far as I know, there is no “Thou shalt not rape” commandment in the Bible. IIRC, the only “punishment” for rape in the Bible is that the man has to marry the victim. That sounds more like a punishment for the woman, doesn’t it? I know society was patriarchical in Biblical days, but this seems a bit extreme. What’s the straight dope? By the way, I am more familiar with the Old Testament than the New. ;j \*\* According to Jewish law, the man had to marry his victim _only if she wished it_. If not, he had to pay a fine of 50 silver (no small amount). The bit about marrying the rapist was for her protection and benefit if she wanted it. Virginity was a sought-after virtue. A woman who was raped may have had difficulty finding a husband in ancient times. Therefore, if she wanted, she could have a guarantee of matrimony (and, BTW, he could not divorce her). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/3 "2001-03-20T03:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > **According to Jewish law, the man had to marry his victim _only if she wished it_. If not, he had to pay a fine of 50 silver (no small amount).** This still doesn’t sound like a felony punishment. And if a man is wealthy it practically gave him free reign to rape without a second thought. Is there an actual **commandment** that says “Thou shalt not rape”? That might be more of a deterrent in those days than the monetary fine. ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/4 "2001-03-20T03:43:48Z")
On the other hand, I don’t remember imprisonment ever being used as a punishment in the Bible, so maybe it was a choice between fines or stoning. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/5 "2001-03-20T04:06:15Z")
Seems like it would be covered under “Thou shall not steal”. After all, a rapist is taking something that doesn’t belong to him. ---
**Author:** ![padabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@padabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/padabe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/6 "2001-03-20T04:29:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*From [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr\_10co.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10co.htm) \* > 7th Commandment; Verse 14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” > [ul][li] This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.[/li] > [li] In ancient Israel, if a man seduced a virgin, the transgression was treated as a commercial infraction. The woman would have lost part of her value. Not being a virgin, she might not be able to find a husband in the future, and thus not bring money to her father. The seducer was required to pay the virgin’s father an amount of money, and perhaps to marry the woman. The woman has no say in the matter; some were forced to marry a rapist who they loathed. (Exodus 22:16-17)[/li] > [li] There is no commandment that prohibits same-sex relationships. Similarly no commandment forbids heterosexual fornication (i.e. sexual activity outside of marriage) as long as woman was not a virgin, or married or betrothed.[/li][/ul] This site may be a bit biased… Also, the 2nd point seems a little unclear on the difference between “seducing” and “raping.” ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/7 "2001-03-20T04:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\*Seems like it would be covered under “Thou shall not steal”. After all, a rapist is taking something that doesn’t belong to him. \*\* It could be covered under that. It could also be covered under “Love your neighbor as yourself…” It could also be covered under “Do not hate your neighbor…” It could also be covered under the general prohibition against pre-marital sex. Needless to say, rape is forbidden under Jewish law. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/8 "2001-03-20T04:39:09Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by padabe \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*From [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr\_10co.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10co.htm) \* > 7th Commandment; Verse 14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” > [ul][li] This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.[/li] \*\* Under Jewish law, that is correct. > [@](#): > > \*\* > [li] In ancient Israel, if a man seduced a virgin, the transgression was treated as a commercial infraction. The woman would have lost part of her value. Not being a virgin, she might not be able to find a husband in the future, and thus not bring money to her father. The seducer was required to pay the virgin’s father an amount of money, and perhaps to marry the woman. The woman has no say in the matter; some were forced to marry a rapist who they loathed. (Exodus 22:16-17)[/li] \*\* To some extent this too is true. However, under Jewish law, the woman was NOT forced to marry the rapist. She could if she wished (but in doing so, the rapist/husband would not be able to divorce her). > [@](#): > > \*\* > [li] There is no commandment that prohibits same-sex relationships.[/li] \*\* You’re kidding on this one, right? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Similarly no commandment forbids heterosexual fornication (i.e. sexual activity outside of marriage) as long as woman was not a virgin, or married or betrothed. > [/ul] \*\* Not exactly true. A woman outside of marriage has a status of a _niddah_ (menstruant). This would hold true from the time her period started until she went to the Mikveh. In addition, by Rabbinic decree, immersion in a Mikveh is ineffectual in removing the _niddah_ status for an unmarried woman. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/9 "2001-03-20T09:04:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by padabe \* > > [li] There is no commandment that prohibits same-sex relationships. Similarly no commandment forbids heterosexual fornication (i.e. sexual activity outside of marriage) as long as woman was not a virgin, or married or betrothed.[/li] According to my annotated Torah (Everett Fox translation, very highly reccomended), Leviticus 18:22: > [@](#): > > …directly condemns homosexuality, which was a feature of many ancient societies. I don’t think there are many people who interpret that verse differently, though there are plenty who ignore it. 🙂 Anyway, that knocks the credibility of that site down a bit in my view. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/10 "2001-03-20T21:55:26Z")
Leviticus 18 seems to forbid incest of various types, bestiality for both men and women, and gay sex for men. Is Lesbianism ever disallowed in the bible? I’ve never seen it. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/11 "2001-03-20T22:00:41Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by padabe \* > > [li] There is no commandment that prohibits same-sex relationships.[/li] \*\* The weaselly technicality for this statement: no COMMANDMENT (i.e., one of the Ten; this commentary is in direct reference to the Seventh Commandment) that prohibits. God did tell Moses that male-male relations were bad, but it’s not part of the Big Ten. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/12 "2001-03-20T22:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by toadspittle \* > \*\*Leviticus 18 seems to forbid incest of various types, bestiality for both men and women, and gay sex for men. > > Is Lesbianism ever disallowed in the bible? I’ve never seen it. \*\* There is no specific prohibition explicitly stated. However, Rabbinic authorities say that it is covered under “…the abominable acts of Egypt…” prohibition of Leviticus 18:3. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/13 "2001-03-20T23:13:56Z")
To get an understanding of how ancient Jews viewed rape, read the story of the rape of Dinah in the book of Genesis. Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, was raped by a local bigwig. The bigwig decided he liked her, sent word to her brothers that he wanted to marry her, and asked them for their price. Now, IF ancient Israelites regarded women merely as property, IF they regarded rape as merely a property crime, IF they didn’t really care about the harm/trauma done to their sisters/daughters… well, then, Jacob’s sons should have said, “No problem! No harm done! Sure, he raped her, but he’s willing to marry her and take her off our hands. So, everything’s fine and dandy.” In reality, Jacob’s sons were furious at what this man had done to their sister. So, they pulled off a clever, hilarious, and utterly disgusting scam! They told the man, “Sure, you can marry our sister, but not until you and all your men are circumcised.” The bigwig agreed… but while he and his men were still in agony from the circumcision (and in no shape to fight back), Jacob’s brothers killed him! When their father expressed dismay at their action, her brothers snarled “Should our sister have been treated like a whore?” In short, Dinah was not punished, nor was she forced to marry her victimizer. Her brothers loved her enough to want justice (which meant, of course, death for the rapist). Now, this is a horrible story in many respects. But it SHOULD put to rest the notion that ancient male Jews were quick to overlook rape, so long as they were paid off. ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2001, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/14 "2001-03-20T23:45:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaveRaver \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > > **According to Jewish law, the man had to marry his victim _only if she wished it_. If not, he had to pay a fine of 50 silver (no small amount).** > > This still doesn’t sound like a felony punishment. \*\* You’ve never been married, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/15 "2001-03-21T00:08:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sue Duhnym \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by DaveRaver \* > > \*\*This still doesn’t sound like a felony punishment. \*\* > > You’ve never been married, have you? \*\* To a woman you wronged, no less! In Proverbs it says (paraphrasing) that a contentious wife is like a drippy faucet…just imagine how miserable a vengeful wife who you raped could make your life (can you say Lorena Bobbitt?). None for me, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/16 "2001-03-21T00:40:30Z")
> [@](#): > > In short, Dinah was not punished, nor was she forced to marry her victimizer. Her brothers loved her enough to want justice (which meant, of course, death for the rapist). Simeon and Levi did not enforce “justice” on Dinah’s rapist. They killed not only Shechem, but “every male in the city.” Then, they “carried off all their wealth and all their women and children, taking as plunder _everything_ in the houses.” (emphasis mine) Sounds like they thought that the appropriate punishment for raping “one of theirs” was to do the same to “all of Shechem’s.” ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2001, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/17 "2001-03-21T01:17:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaveRaver \* > **IIRC, the only “punishment” for rape in the Bible is that the man has to marry the victim. That sounds more like a punishment for the woman, doesn’t it?** Deuteronomy 22:23-25 contains a special punishment for a raped virgin – depending on where the rape occurs. > [@](#): > > If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; > Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. > But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. Of course, those city girls kick a lot more, what with the death penalty hanging over them. ☹ –Grump “In space, no one can hear you scream” y ---
**Author:** ![YTMezoan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@YTMezoan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YTMezoan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2001, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/18 "2001-03-21T03:36:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by grumpy > \*\*Of course, those city girls kick a lot more, what with the death penalty hanging over them. ☹ > \*\* The difference implied by the verse, of course, is not merely the geographical location of the rape, but rather the type of place. In a “city”, there is reasonable hope that she would be rescued, and in a “field” there is not, due to lack of passersby. The middle of Central Park at 3am would likely have the law of a field - a cornfield in Kansas in broad daylight with 1000 harvesters within earshot would likely have the law of a city. The screaming, where it would help, serves as an indication that she is being forced against her will, enabling someone to rescue her. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2001, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/19 "2001-03-21T13:45:31Z")
The Dinah story is a complex one. Astorian’s point was that rape was viewed as a serious offense, not merely a commercial transaction. The fact is that the Bible (Old Testament) lists very few punishments for infractions – death, of course, for some crimes. But otherwise, it’s pretty much a fine. They didn’t have prisons, they didn’t have “community service” or halfway houses, there wasn’t much alternative. [Aside] Rape is a crime that doesn’t leave physical marks. In those early days, without DNA evidence and microscopes, the evidence of wrong-doing was pretty much physical. If a person had bruises or scars, that was evidence of abuse. However, if there were no physical signs of rape, how would a judge (pre-jury days, remember) decide whether the accusation of rape was valid? [/Aside] The Dinah story makes other points, as well. The actions of Simon and Levi, in killing the entire town rather than just the offender, are condemned in the Bible text. And Jacob’s inaction – shrugging his shoulders when he hears what his sons have done, rather than condemning them – is viewed as a shameful behavior on Jacob’s part. So the story has a great deal of complexity to it beyond the simple rape/punishment aspect. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663/20 "2001-03-21T13:52:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > In addition, by Rabbinic decree, immersion in a Mikveh is ineffectual in removing the _niddah_ status for an unmarried woman. This is not correct. There is an unrelated prohibition on unmarried sex however. Authorities differ as to whether it is Biblical or Rabbinic. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-rape-permitted-in-the-bible/58663.md?page=2)