# Was Richard Nixon great or terrible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810 "2014-08-04T19:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/61 "2014-08-06T04:37:44Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I never heard that he had anything to do with the Paris peace talks. What did he do, and how? And how did it help him in the 1968 election? 😕 Since you asked. > **[Paris Peace Accords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords#Claimed_sabotage_of_negotiations_by_Nixon_campaign)** > > The Paris Peace Accords (Vietnamese: Hiệp định Paris về Việt Nam), officially the Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Viet Nam (Hiệp định về cháș„m dứt chiáșżn tranh, láș­p láșĄi hĂČa bĂŹnh ở Việt Nam), was a peace agreement signed on January 27, 1973, to establish peace in Vietnam and end the Vietnam War. It took effect at 8:00 the following day. The agreement was signed by the governments of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam); the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam); the Un... > **[The Lyndon Johnson tapes: Richard Nixon's 'treason'](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768668)** > > A Radio 4 documentary, based on declassified tapes of President Lyndon Johnson's telephone calls provide an extraordinary insight into his world. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/62 "2014-08-06T04:38:47Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Maybe, but I would hope that supporting, materially and morally, an army that murders at least 300,000 of its people(Bangladeshi estimates are 3 million) and displaces millions more, would detract from Nixon’s reputation enough that this debate is settled. Morally? Morally?? Obviously, You Weren’t There. Morally? Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger??? Morally? Ever read a book entitled [Sideshow](http://www.amazon.com/Sideshow-William-Shawcross/dp/0671230700) about how 1/3 of Cambodia’s population was murdered? Go open a thread about “Morality during the Nixon Administration” and see if you get one positive response about the morality of Richard Nixon. Everyone was expendable and yeah, You Weren’t There. Jeepers Creepers. Older Dopers, please help enlighten bldysabba before I blow my beer through my nose. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/63 "2014-08-06T04:39:30Z")
Another thing that never ceases to amaze me about the Nixon tapes is how stupid, immature, unprepared and unprofessional the principals are at all times. I understand that back in the day there would be dirty jokes at the water cooler, but these guys never seem to have done the work and analysis. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/64 "2014-08-06T04:40:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador\_Allende](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende) > > Say what you will about the guy, he was committed to democracy. Nixon or Allende? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/65 "2014-08-06T05:08:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Say what you will about the guy, he was committed to democracy. Not sure what Nixon was committed to but on foreign policy, the guy was ruthless. I think he totally spooked the Chinese and Soviets. He was unpredictable and damn near bombed Hanoi flat to get the North Vietnamese back to the “peace table” in Paris. Who remembers this? C’mon guys. Help me. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/66 "2014-08-06T13:56:49Z")
> [@Jungian\_Camisole](#): > > Wasn’t Nixon the man responsible for the Southern Strategy? That in itself is enough to make me want to dig him up and give him a posthumous kick to the balls. Funny- FDR had no qualms about taking the votes of the evil racists of the Solid South. Why wouldn’t Nixon want their votes? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/67 "2014-08-06T14:10:46Z")
I didn’t realize quite how complicit Nixon was in the Bangladeshi genocide, **bldysabba**. Thanks for that. I was under the impression that he (like the British) basically just made supportive noises to East Pakistan without actually doing anything. > [@Jungian\_Camisole](#): > > Wasn’t Nixon the man responsible for the Southern Strategy? That in itself is enough to make me want to dig him up and give him a posthumous kick to the balls. If not him, someone else. LBJ had basically handed the white southern vote to the GOP (and rightly so.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/68 "2014-08-06T15:09:44Z")
> [@Jungian\_Camisole](#): > > Wasn’t Nixon the man responsible for the Southern Strategy? [Yes.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy#Roots_of_the_Southern_strategy) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/69 "2014-08-06T15:11:01Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I never heard that he had anything to do with the Paris peace talks. What did he do, and how? And how did it help him in the 1968 election? 😕 See post #29. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/70 "2014-08-06T15:12:39Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Funny- FDR had no qualms about taking the votes of the evil racists of the Solid South. Why wouldn’t Nixon want their votes? The difference is, FDR was stuck with 'em and Nixon set out to poach 'em. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/71 "2014-08-06T15:17:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Or his involvement with the overthrow of the democratically elected government in Chile, and the installation of the dictator, Augusto Pinochet. And yet [some Dopers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=399625) [will still defend Pinochet](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=350187). And [Nixon/Kissinger’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=399626) role in that business. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/72 "2014-08-06T15:23:15Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Not sure what Nixon was committed to but on foreign policy, the guy was ruthless. I think he totally spooked the Chinese and Soviets. He was unpredictable and damn near bombed Hanoi flat to get the North Vietnamese back to the “peace table” in Paris. > > Who remembers this? C’mon guys. Help me. [Nixon himself remembers.](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon) (Yes, “remembers,” present tense, death as we know it has no power over Him . . .) “If, when the chips are down, the world’s most powerful nation, the United States of America, acts like a pitiful, helpless giant, the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy will threaten free nations and free institutions throughout the world.” (Totalitarianism and anarchy are allies now?!) “1 in 10 chance perhaps, but save Chile! worth spending; not concerned; no involvement of embassy; $10,000,000 available, more if necessary; full-time job — best men we have; game plan; make the economy scream; 48 hours for plan of action.” “I call it the Madman Theory, Bob. I want the North Vietnamese to believe I’ve reached the point where I might do anything to stop the war. We’ll just slip the word to them that, for God’s sake, you know Nixon is obsessed about Communism. We can’t restrain him when he’s angry and he has his hand on the nuclear button and Ho Chi Minh himself will be in Paris in two days begging for peace.” Nixon: I still think we ought to take the North Vietnamese dikes out now. Will that drown people? Kissinger: About two hundred thousand people. Nixon: No, no, no, I’d rather use the nuclear bomb. Have you got that, Henry? Kissinger: That, I think, would just be too much. Nixon: The nuclear bomb, does that bother you?. I just want you to think big, Henry, for Christsakes. Nixon: The only place where you and I disagree is with regard to the bombing. You’re so goddamned concerned about civilians and I don’t give a damn. I don’t care. Kissinger: I’m concerned about the civilians because I don’t want the world to be mobilized against you as a butcher. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/73 "2014-08-06T15:27:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The difference is, FDR was stuck with 'em and Nixon set out to poach 'em. The New Deal coalition depended on the very Southerners that liberals condemned Nixon for appealing to. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/74 "2014-08-06T15:32:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The New Deal coalition depended on the very Southerners that liberals condemned Nixon for appealing to. I know that, and LBJ knew it when he signed the Voting Rights Act and told Bill Moyers, “We [the Democrats] have just lost the South for a generation.” (That generation is now past, BTW.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/75 "2014-08-06T15:51:44Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The New Deal coalition depended on the very Southerners that liberals condemned Nixon for appealing to. That’s only relevant if you are arguing that FDR’s Republican opponents were anti-segregation. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/76 "2014-08-06T16:06:12Z")
Nixon’s animosity towards whole segments of the American people, alone, made him a terrible president. The man kept a list of his enemies! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/77 "2014-08-06T16:21:43Z")
Well, you wouldn’t want him to be mean to the wrong guy, would you? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/78 "2014-08-06T16:22:23Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > The man kept a list of his enemies! 😕 Doesn’t everybody? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/79 "2014-08-06T16:24:55Z")
I like to think that periodically he would casually add to it, like one would add to a grocery list. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/80 "2014-08-06T17:46:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Doesn’t everybody? Now why would I want a list of Nixon ’ s enemies? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810.md?page=5)