# Was Richard Nixon great or terrible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810 "2014-08-04T19:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/81 "2014-08-06T18:38:17Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Nixon or Allende? Allende, obviously. > [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Not sure what Nixon was committed to but on foreign policy, the guy was ruthless. I think he totally spooked the Chinese and Soviets. He was unpredictable and damn near bombed Hanoi flat to get the North Vietnamese back to the “peace table” in Paris. > > Who remembers this? C’mon guys. Help me. I wasn’t talking about Nixon. That guy didn’t give a shit about democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/82 "2014-08-06T18:44:02Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Morally? Morally?? Obviously, You Weren’t There. Morally? Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger??? Morally? Ever read a book entitled [Sideshow](http://www.amazon.com/Sideshow-William-Shawcross/dp/0671230700) about how 1/3 of Cambodia’s population was murdered? > > Go open a thread about “Morality during the Nixon Administration” and see if you get one positive response about the morality of Richard Nixon. > > Everyone was expendable and yeah, You Weren’t There. > > Jeepers Creepers. Older Dopers, please help enlighten bldysabba before I blow my beer through my nose. I think you might need to re-read. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/83 "2014-08-06T19:12:56Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Now why would I want a list of Nixon ’ s enemies? Because he didn’t get them all! Somebody has to take up the torch! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/84 "2014-08-06T19:57:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Allende, obviously. If he was a Marxist, didn’t he support the concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/85 "2014-08-06T20:25:28Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > If he was a Marxist, didn’t he support the concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat? Not all socialists, not even all Marxists, are averse to multiparty democracy. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/86 "2014-08-06T21:24:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not all socialists, not even all Marxists, are averse to multiparty democracy. Ah, but wasn’t D of P part of Marx ’ s doctrine? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/87 "2014-08-07T14:10:23Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Ah, but wasn’t D of P part of Marx ’ s doctrine? [Yes, but:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat) > [@](#): > > According to Engels, co-founder of Marxism, the “specific form” of the dictatorship of the proletariat is a democratic republic.[4] Which makes sense in that Marx and Engels assumed the Revolution coming only in a society where the proletariat was a majority. (In Russia in 1917, the urban industrial proletariat was a minority – most Russians were agrarian peasants. Don’t know how it was in Chile in the 1970s.) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/88 "2014-08-07T14:31:04Z")
Obviously this wasn’t the case with the Soviet Union in 1918, or Red China in 1949. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/89 "2014-08-07T15:02:31Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Obviously this wasn’t the case with the Soviet Union in 1918, or Red China in 1949. And I very much doubt Marx would have approved of either, but there it is. Allende was apparently a better Marxist than Lenin or Mao. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/90 "2014-08-07T21:25:37Z")
Just in case someone here doesn’t know the date, it was exactly 40 years ago from tomorrow (August 8, 1974) that Nixon resigned. Any of our more senior members remember their reaction? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/91 "2014-08-07T23:28:32Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Just in case someone here doesn’t know the date, it was exactly 40 years ago from tomorrow (August 8, 1974) that Nixon resigned. > > Any of our more senior members remember their reaction? I was reminded of the old adage about the wonderful peace that descends when you stop hitting yourself on the head with a hammer. Partly because up to the last minute there was some concern — not much, but some — that he would change his mind and attempt to impose martial law. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/92 "2014-08-08T09:37:40Z")
> [@jrock645](#): > > He’s mostly known for the Watergate scandal but accomplished a lot as a president. Which side of the fence are you on? Is…is this a trick question? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/93 "2014-08-08T10:25:32Z")
[PBS recently televised a 17-minute discussion of Nixon’s legacy](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nixon-tested-u-s-government-changed-relationship-american-people/), with three scholars and Pat Buchanan. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/94 "2014-08-08T15:25:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [PBS recently televised a 17-minute discussion of Nixon’s legacy](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nixon-tested-u-s-government-changed-relationship-american-people/), with three scholars and Pat Buchanan. Which side was Buchanan on? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/95 "2014-08-08T15:41:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Nixon himself remembers.](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon) (Yes, “remembers,” present tense, death as we know it has no power over Him . . .) [You see?!](http://png-3.findicons.com/files/icons/1227/futurama_vol_5_heads_in_jars/256/richard_nixon_s_head.png) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/96 "2014-08-08T15:43:18Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Which side was Buchanan on? I saw him interviewed on _The Colbert Report_ about [his new book](http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Comeback-Richard-Majority/dp/0553418637), and he said if he had been in Nixon’s shoes, he would have destroyed the non-yet-subpoenaed tapes, and that would not have been obstruction of justice. John Dean came on right after him and disagreed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/97 "2014-08-08T16:36:51Z")
John Dean, who has personally transcribed all the Nixon tapes, [is interviewed](http://www.salon.com/2014/08/08/john_dean_on_richard_nixon_hes_in_the_middle_of_this_its_for_him_blessed_by_him/) about that and [his new book](http://www.amazon.com/dp/0670025364/?tag=saloncom08-20). He says Nixon’s decision-making was “Abysmal.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/98 "2014-08-08T17:50:36Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Why can’t he be both? Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/99 "2014-08-08T18:04:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I saw him interviewed on _The Colbert Report_ about [his new book](http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Comeback-Richard-Majority/dp/0553418637), and he said if he had been in Nixon’s shoes, he would have destroyed the non-yet-subpoenaed tapes, and that would not have been obstruction of justice. John Dean came on right after him and disagreed. For shame! As a minister he should have kept in mind what Jehoiakim did. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810/100 "2014-08-08T18:20:08Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > For shame! As a minister he should have kept in mind what Jehoiakim did. ☹ Paid tribute to the Egyptians and Babylonians? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-richard-nixon-great-or-terrible/694810.md?page=6)