# Was Shylock a real name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145 "2007-12-07T13:08:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/1 "2007-12-07T13:08:18Z")
Was Shylock a real name in use among Jews (or others) before Shakespeare wrote **The Merchant of Venice**? Or did Shakespeare invent the name? ---
**Author:** ![yelimS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/54ee81/32.png) [@yelimS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yelimS)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/2 "2007-12-07T13:14:15Z")
Whether he invented it or chose it, he sure nailed it. I haven’t heard such a patently evil name since Beelzebub. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/3 "2007-12-07T13:31:10Z")
A quick internet search reveals nothing before Shakespeare. Most {“name origin” sites ignore it altogether (Who’d name their kid “Shylock”? It’s al;most like naming your kid “Darth Vader”), or simply dead-end at Shakespeare", like this one: [http://www.babynology.com/shakespearean\_name-meaning\_Shylock\_m.html](http://www.babynology.com/shakespearean_name-meaning_Shylock_m.html) It wouldn’t be unheard of to make up names. Heck, Dickens did it all the time. Prior to him, you never found names like “SCrooge” or “Pickwick”. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/4 "2007-12-07T13:37:53Z")
Since Shakespeare probably never met a Jew (they were banished from England in 1270 and weren’t allowed back for over 300 years), he would have no direct knowledge of Jewish names at all. ---
**Author:** ![pantheon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@pantheon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantheon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/5 "2007-12-07T13:38:08Z")
Inconclusive search here too, except learning that it probably wasn’t inspired by a real Jew that Willy knew, as they were banned from England in 1290, and not re-admitted until 40 yrs after his death (any he knew would have been hiding their Judaism). Also learned that shyster is not an off-shoot, at least according to: shyster. An unscrupulous lawyer (note that the definition presumes the existence of scrupulous ones) . . . The term does not come from—as suggested in various dictionaries—the surname Scheuster, supposedly a lawyer noted for shyster-like practices; from the name of the Shakespearean character, Shylock; . … or from any of the various meanings of shy (e.g., to be shy of money). Rather . . . shyster evolved from the underworld use of shiser, a worthless fellow, which derived in turn from the German scheisse, excrement, via scheisser, an incompetent person (specifically, one who cannot control his bodily functions) . . . Hugh Rawson (1991) A Dictionary of Invective ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/6 "2007-12-07T13:42:33Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Since Shakespeare probably never met a Jew (they were banished from England in 1270 and weren’t allowed back for over 300 years), he would have no direct knowledge of Jewish names at all. [/QUOTE] Perhaps not of contemporary Jewish names, but he would have read his Bible. ---
**Author:** ![pantheon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@pantheon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantheon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/7 "2007-12-07T13:44:03Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Since Shakespeare probably never met a Jew (they were banished from England in 1270 and weren’t allowed back for over 300 years), he would have no direct knowledge of Jewish names at all. [/QUOTE] Damn you, RC, and your quick fingers. scheisser 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/8 "2007-12-07T15:10:57Z")
Mrs. Piper and I went to the Globe in London earlier this year to see _The Merchant of Venice_. The programme said this about the name: > [@](#): > > … as the scholar Stephen Orgel has demonstrated, all the efforts to demonstrate its Hebrew etymology cannot disprove the fact that Shylock was a purely English name, semantically equivalent to Whitlock and Whithead and probably used by Shakespeare to poke fun at a London Puritan. ---
**Author:** ![LyndaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7bcc69/32.png) [@LyndaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LyndaB)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/9 "2018-08-19T03:55:35Z")
I was wondering if it was a misunderstanding of ‘side lock’ because of the Jewish prohibition on shaving sideburn hair, which grows long and curly if not trimmed. But if Shakespeare had never seen a practicing Jew, that seems unlikely. It wouldn’t be the first time a person was named for a personal attribute. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/10 "2018-08-19T04:06:04Z")
> [@yelimS](#): > > Whether he invented it or chose it, he sure nailed it. I haven’t heard such a patently evil name since Beelzebub. Beelzebub is a variant of Baal Hadad, an ancient Semitic war/storm good, equivalent to Zeus. So, no eviler than Zeus. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/11 "2018-08-19T06:55:39Z")
Shakespeare may never have met a practising Jewish moneylender, but like anyone he knew of Dr. Lopez: > **[Roderigo Lopes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderigo_Lopez)** > > Roderigo Lopes (also called Ruy Lopes, Ruy Lopez, Roderigo Lopus, Ruy Lopus, Roger Lopez and Rodrigo Lopes; also referred to as Roderigo Lopez and Rodrigo Lopez; c. 1517 – 7 June 1594) served as a physician-in-chief to Queen Elizabeth I of England from 1581 until his death by execution, having been found guilty of plotting to poison her. A Portuguese converso or New Christian of Jewish ancestry, he is the only royal doctor in English history to have been executed, and may have inspired the ch... ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/12 "2018-08-19T10:47:18Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Since Shakespeare probably never met a Jew (they were banished from England in 1270 and weren’t allowed back for over 300 years), he would have no direct knowledge of Jewish names at all. Shakespeare never went to Italy either, but his plays show a surprisingly deep knowledge of Italian culture and geography. He clearly knew how to do research (if not the bookish kind then by picking the brains of better-travelled friends) and so the fact that he never met a Jew hardly seems relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/13 "2018-08-19T11:42:33Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Shakespeare never went to Italy either, but his plays show a surprisingly deep knowledge of Italian culture and geography. He clearly knew how to do research (if not the bookish kind then by picking the brains of better-travelled friends) and so the fact that he never met a Jew hardly seems relevant. They also show a lack of any deep knowledge of Italian culture and geography. > **[How did Shakespeare know so much about Italy?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=707246)** > > How did Shakespeare know so much about Italy. For example, Two Gentlemen of Verona, Romeo and Juliet and The Merchant Of Venice. I am sure he never went there. Was there literature he had access to, or could he have met people who had been there? The gist of everything I have read is that he was well-read on the subject (for his time), but clearly had no personal experience, so the facts floated in a sea of assumptions and misimpressions. One would reasonably assume that he would similarly get a lot wrong about Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/14 "2018-08-19T12:42:04Z")
It was my understanding that the ban on Jews was mostly observed in the breach: That is, there were plenty of Jews in London, and everyone knew who they were, and pretended they didn’t know… until one annoyed you in some way, or you owed him too much money, or whatever, and then you would suddenly be shocked to discover that he was a Jew, and he’d be kicked out of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/15 "2018-08-19T13:06:36Z")
It’s not like the man wasn’t in the habit of [inventing words](http://shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.html). That’s not to throw a punch at him. English is in the habit of inventing words left, right up and down. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/16 "2018-08-19T13:51:24Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > It’s not like the man wasn’t in the habit of [inventing words](http://shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.html). I’m skeptical of lists like that. How do we know Shakespeare invented a word, just because we don’t happen to have a record of anyone using it before him? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/17 "2018-08-19T13:58:41Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > It’s not like the man wasn’t in the habit of [inventing words](http://shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.html). Shakespeare’s reputation for inventing words is greatly exaggerated and overhyped. It is true that many words have their first known usage in Shakespeare’s works, but that doesn’t mean he necessarily coined them all. Much of it is likely due to his propensity to commit new terms from spoken language to writing and to the fact that Shakespeare’s works have been relatively well preserved compared to other written works of the same period. (And also, historically, the fact that the compilers of the _Oxford English Dictionary_—the first to systematically record diachronic word usages—started with Shakespeare and didn’t make a concerted effort to exhaustively check earlier sources. Nowadays, thanks to digitization, it’s getting easier to search for earlier usages. Many words once thought to have originated with Shakespeare have since been proven to have been used by others first.) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-shylock-a-real-name/429145/18 "2018-08-19T16:24:47Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Beelzebub is a variant of Baal Hadad, an ancient Semitic war/storm good, equivalent to Zeus. So, no eviler than Zeus. Though the _name_ “Beelzebub” means “Lord of the Flies.”