# Was Spock a Sadistic Pervert?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [February 3, 2008, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069 "2008-02-03T06:31:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/1 "2008-02-03T06:31:57Z")
I just watched the Star Trek episode The Enemy Within. In the episode Captain Kirk is split into a good and an evil self. At one point the evil Kirk attempts to and nearly does rape Yeoman Rand. At the end the end of the episode Spock says to Rand, “The uh…impostor had some interesting qualities, wouldn’t you say Yoeman?” He then stares her down with a little half smirk.
Does anyone else find this really disturbing?
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### Author:  [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/2 "2008-02-03T07:10:14Z")
Read the original ending before rewrites. Which is worse?
[http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/enemywithin.htm](http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/enemywithin.htm)
Sir Rhosis
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### Author:  [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/3 "2008-02-03T10:12:20Z")
Wow. Bad bad ending, and then I read Sir Rhosis’ link, and that’s worse.
I thought the thread title referred to the retcon in \*Enterprise \*where it’s revealed that those Vulcan’s who can mind meld are a small minority, considered as mutant psycho-sexual predators by the ruling majority.
Which now seems strangely fitting…
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/4 "2008-02-03T16:21:45Z")
[Yes](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uxTpyCdriY).
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/5 "2008-02-03T16:43:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sir Rhosis]
Read the original ending before rewrites. Which is worse?
[http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/enemywithin.htm](http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/enemywithin.htm)
Sir Rhosis
[/QUOTE]
I actually think the filmed version is worse, when you put it in context. Remember, it’s been a running theme in the series to this point that Rand has a crush on Kirk – and that he has reciprocal feelings but restrains them for the sake of discipline. Rand is not saying, “It’s all right if you rape me, you know I want it.” She’s simply saying, “I **know** you have a basic primal desire for me and that’s all right.” It’s, like, taking control of her own sexuality. What Spock does in the fimed version is merely gloating, from the lofty, detached perspective of a creature utterly in control of **his** emotions.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/6 "2008-02-03T16:57:53Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye]
I thought the thread title referred to the retcon in \*Enterprise \*where it’s revealed that those Vulcan’s who can mind meld are a small minority, considered as mutant psycho-sexual predators by the ruling majority
[/QUOTE]
A retcon so utterly contradictory to decades of canon and fanon that I am happy to dismiss the entire _Enterprise_ series as a holodeck simulation.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/7 "2008-02-03T21:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy]
A retcon so utterly contradictory to decades of canon and fanon that I am happy to dismiss the entire _Enterprise_ series as a holodeck simulation.
[/QUOTE]
What is this “_Enterprise_ series” to which you refer? 😕
So Spock was a psycho-sexual deviate, huh? Must’ve got it from his dad.
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### Author:  [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/8 "2008-02-03T21:51:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
I actually think the filmed version is worse, when you put it in context. Remember, it’s been a running theme in the series to this point that Rand has a crush on Kirk – and that he has reciprocal feelings but restrains them for the sake of discipline. Rand is not saying, “It’s all right if you rape me, you know I want it.” She’s simply saying, “I **know** you have a basic primal desire for me and that’s all right.” It’s, like, taking control of her own sexuality. What Spock does in the fimed version is merely gloating, from the lofty, detached perspective of a creature utterly in control of **his** emotions.
[/QUOTE]
You make a very good point. Rand may be pleased that her attraction is returned, but it would have been very dodgy, even in the 60’s, to have any woman seeming to approve of what was \*portrayed \* as attempted rape.
Spock’s approval can at least be put down to cultural differences. Vulcan sexual conventions are not based on polite conversatio, but a fight to the death between males to win access to the female.
I can only speak from 30 years beyond the writers and show, because that’s where I am. I can understand cultural mores better than voluntary victimhood.
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### Author:  [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/9 "2008-02-03T22:04:08Z")
Spock a sadistic pervert? _raises eyebrow_ That would be illogical.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/10 "2008-02-03T22:44:06Z")
I surprised no-one has yet mentioned the forced mindmeld scene on Valeris in _Star Trek VI_, which to me was the only covincingly dramatic bit in the whole movie. The novelization wusses out, though, coming up with some tortured (heh) way to describe it as somehting else, but actress Kim Cattrall has said in interviews that _she_ had no doubt it was a “rape”.
Spock _can_ be a sadist, _and_ an exhibitionist, when Kirk nods his approval.
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### Author:  [@thwartme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thwartme)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/11 "2008-02-04T00:05:12Z")
I don’t read it that way. Rand’s comment to the Captain immediately before her exchange with Spock indicated that despite everything she still has her crush on Kirk. I think Spock’s comment poked fun at her for that ongoing situation, and was not in any way intended as a comment on the attempted rape.
Now, having said that, I don’t think it was a particularly GOOD joke on Spock’s part. I just don’t think it was an EVIL comment. We all know that if Spock had been having an EVIL moment, he would have had a goatee.
thwartme
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/12 "2008-02-04T00:06:12Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye]
You make a very good point. Rand may be pleased that her attraction is returned, but it would have been very dodgy, even in the 60’s, to have any woman seeming to approve of what was \*portrayed \* as attempted rape…
[/QUOTE]
No, I disagree with that. Movies from the 50s and 60s are filled with “romances” like that, except not so explicit. Many pulls woman against him, and plants a long kiss on her. Woman protests, squeals, slaps at him and beats her fists against his chest, and after some time melts against him and gets into it.
Maybe you would argue that as something different, but the conept was that women were saying no with their words and yes, er, some other way. In today’s terms, it’s rape.
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### Author:  [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/13 "2008-02-04T01:18:38Z")
Would that be “Manny Peoples” who pulls a woman against him? Sorry, old board humor.
😃
Sir Rhosis
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### Author:  [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/14 "2008-02-04T01:21:37Z")
So I’m the only one who thought Spock was implying he, too, was familiar with Kirk’s interesting attributes?
I am?
Carry on, then.
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### Author:  [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/15 "2008-02-04T01:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl]
So I’m the only one who thought Spock was implying he, too, was familiar with Kirk’s interesting attributes?
I am?
Carry on, then.
[/QUOTE]
Hey, get your slashy fun where you can.
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### Author:  [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/16 "2008-02-04T04:03:28Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
No, I disagree with that. Movies from the 50s and 60s are filled with “romances” like that, except not so explicit. Many pulls woman against him, and plants a long kiss on her. Woman protests, squeals, slaps at him and beats her fists against his chest, and after some time melts against him and gets into it.
Maybe you would argue that as something different, but the conept was that women were saying no with their words and yes, er, some other way. In today’s terms, it’s rape.
[/QUOTE]
That’s exactly what I meant with the comment:
> [@](#):
>
> I can only speak from 30 years beyond the writers and show, because that’s where I am. I can understand cultural mores better than voluntary victimhood.
Except that it’s closer to 40 years, and since the ending \*was \*changed, the writers thought her reaction was inappropriate as well.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2008, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-spock-a-sadistic-pervert/436069/17 "2008-02-04T07:25:50Z")
[QUOTE=Aesiron]
[Yes](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uxTpyCdriY).
[/QUOTE]
Maybe not. [But I certainly am.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFR-8NVjw-k) (A sadist that is…pervert no.)