# Was Star Trek - The Motion Picture a bad movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911 "2006-03-11T05:02:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/21 "2006-03-11T15:43:52Z")
The hugely ironic moment in this otherwise dull, leaden retread ofa movie is when Stephen Collins’ character realizes why V’Ger needs a human to merge with it, because humans can “leap beyond logic”. This is exactly what the film’s writer was doing when he came up with that scene. Harve Bennet saved that series by giving the second movie a good hard yank back to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/22 "2006-03-11T15:57:00Z")
I liked it. I’ve seen dozens of hyper-kinetic sci-fi pics, so I kind of liked the slow moving pace of ST:I, where the characters slowly worked through a problem without having to go through a space battle every 10 minutes. And having not seen the Nomad episode, the ending was a satisfying twist for me. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/23 "2006-03-11T16:19:22Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > It was the first one, made after TPTB saw how successful _Star Wars_ was. I’m sure a lot of nostalgic fans rushed to see it because it was Star Trek on the Big Screen!, and remember, they had no other Star Trek movies to compare it to. > > Then came Wrath of Khan, and oh, my… Actually, it had more to do with TV than with Star Wars. What really kicked the Trek franchise owners in the head was how popular the original show got _after it was cancelled_. It exploded in syndication. And the Star Trek conventions were a real surprise, too. Trek had become a staple of sci-fi TV (even tho it isn’t really sci-fi) in the 70s. So the Great Bird of the Galaxy tried to ring it back to TV. However, for some varied reasons, that idea failed. So all the money, ideas, scripts, new make ups, and whot not were salvaged into a theatrical release. And THAT’S why ST:TMP seems so disjointed and half written. It was, in essense, a failed TV pilot. However, it did satisfy Trekkies (soon to change to Trekkers) with just being made. Even after TMP, there was still talk of bringing later TOS to TV again. What would that have been like? See STII:TWOK, STIII:TSFS, and STIV:TVH for a good idea of what it may it have been. Broken up into TV eps, of course. When Gene (and others) finally did Trek back to TV, it was a new generation of actors, set in the future of TOS. I feel that TNG survived its first seasons on TV largely because the TOS movies brought enough of an audience to Trek in general. Plus, Trekkers were just happy to have a weekly fix again. So, remember _::hand to head::_ the success of all later Trek owes virtually everything to 70s syndicated TV. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/24 "2006-03-11T16:26:37Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I take it you’ve not seen _Nemesis_. The God movie at least works as camp. :dubious: Hey! _Nemesis_ helped get a Doper banned! That’s no small feat for a weak sci-fi-ish movie. Plus, we had a lot of fun with silly in jokes. Such as: [spoiler]Was Picard upset when Shir-kan died? Yeah, he was beside himself.[/spoiler] 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/25 "2006-03-11T16:53:08Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Awkward uncomfortable interactions between actors who once seemed to fit quite well together (especially Nimoy and Shatner, good god! What was with those weird pauses between lines when they first meet? Need a teleprompter or something?). I think you’re completely misreading this scene. The entire point of the scene was that Spock, after having been attempting Kohlinar on Vulcan for the last few years, was no longer the same Spock that Kirk knew so well, and he didn’t slip back into his spot on the ship smoothly. The awkward interaction between the two of them, where formally it had been so seemless, was a great way to illustrate this. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/26 "2006-03-11T17:37:50Z")
ST fans were vastly disappointed by TMP when it came out. As a film, it was dull and leaden, with what seemed like a half hour of watching the actors watch the forward screen and going “ooh” and “ah.” The movie was, however, highly influential in both science fiction and filmmaking. The image of the shaven-headed Persis Khambatta has become as iconic as any in SF (not just her, but the concept of any shaven-headed woman). Also, it was successful enough for Hollywood to begin to start making remakes of old TV series: since a bad revival of ST made money, you could make bad revivals of anything and, by keeping a better rein on the budget, make money on them, too. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/27 "2006-03-11T18:40:56Z")
NoClueBoy writes: \> So, remember ::hand to head:: the success of all later Trek owes virtually \> everything to 70s syndicated TV. Indeed, you younguns here might not realize just how ubiquitous Star Trek reruns were in the 1970’s. In retrospect, it’s seems like the main memory many people have of that decade was those reruns. I remember once around 1985 thinking to myself, “Someday someone is going to ask me, ‘So the 1960’s was the hippies and the 1980’s was yuppies, but what went on in the 1970’s?’. My answer would have to be ‘We watched a lot of Star Trek reruns’.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/28 "2006-03-11T18:52:06Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > NoClueBoy writes: > > \> So, remember ::hand to head:: the success of all later Trek owes virtually > \> everything to 70s syndicated TV. > > Indeed, you younguns here might not realize just how ubiquitous Star Trek reruns were in the 1970’s. In retrospect, it’s seems like the main memory many people have of that decade was those reruns. I remember once around 1985 thinking to myself, “Someday someone is going to ask me, ‘So the 1960’s was the hippies and the 1980’s was yuppies, but what went on in the 1970’s?’. My answer would have to be ‘We watched a lot of Star Trek reruns’.” Well now I know you must be near my age. I feel like I grew up watching Star Trek Reruns followed by Yankee Games. I born the day Star Trek Debut apparently. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/29 "2006-03-11T20:37:40Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > I think Nemesis gets an unjust rep. I just watched it again and its really not a bad Trek movie at all. I though it was better than Insurrection which I consider to be the Next Gen’s ST:V (i.e. a goofy comedy). > > I think Nemesis suffered at the box office mostly because they waited too long to make it (four years instead of the normal two), plus the only show on at the time was Enterprise and that hadn’t really found an audience yet. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. The mischaracterizations of Picard and Worf and the stupendously illogical motivations of Shinzon are just too much for me and I can’t watch the movie without wanting to cause serious bodily harm eiher to myself or to someone related to the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/30 "2006-03-11T23:04:04Z")
Originally, Gene Roddenberry wanted to start a new series called Star Trek II. ST:TMP was supposed to be the pilot. Niether William Shatner, nor Leonard Nimoy were going to do it, so the characters of Decker and the Vulcan who gets fried at the beginning of the movie. (Incidentilly, Riker was based on Decker, Data was based on the fried Vulcan and Troi was based on the bald chick). I think the movie version suffered for trying to convert it to a movie and stuffing Shatner and Nimoy back in. As for Nemesis, I enjoyed it for two reasons. 1. I love space battles and the battles were awesome. 2. It was the first (and only of course) Star Trek movie my kids were old enough to take with me to the theater. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/31 "2006-03-11T23:13:32Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > My take was that it was a great one-hour episode. Unfortunately, it took two hours to tell. And halfway through, ILM was fired and a second-rate effects company was hired. Oh yeah, and the plot was done before with Nomad. > > And the V-GER thing was stupid. > > But otherwise, I was impressed that Roddenberry was able to assemble the original cast for a great one-hour episode. That took two hours. Well, tdn said everything I was going to say. They just streeeeeeeeeeetched it out way too long. Like others, I didn’t mind Nemesis. But Wrath of Khan isn’t my favorite, although I did like it. Undiscovered Country was definitely my favorite! hey check out some of this trivia about Wrath of Khan from Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > This is also the first Star Trek episode or movie where damage to the outer hull of the Enterprise is seen. > The film was much more action-oriented than its predecessor, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, but Star Trek II was much less costly to make with its more modest special effects budget and TV production schedule. > After the release of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, executive producer Gene Roddenberry wrote his own sequel, involving a plot he had touted before in which the crew of the Enterprise travel back through time to assassinate John F. Kennedy and set a corrupted time line right. This sequel was turned down by Paramount executives, who blamed the relative failure of the first movie on the constant rewrites demanded by Roddenberry. He was ultimately removed from the production and reduced to an advisory position. > Admiral James T. Kirk (William Shatner) and Khan Noonien Singh (Ricardo Montalban) were never actually face-to-face at any point during the film. All of their interactions are over the viewscreen or through communicators. Shatner describes in his book Star Trek Movie Memories (ISBN 0060176172) how their scenes were filmed four months apart. > Though Arthur C. Clarke did not include The Wrath of Khan in his list of best science fiction films ever made, he “brooded over” the omission. List? What list? No one ever tells me these things! _runs off to search_ ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/32 "2006-03-11T23:16:28Z")
It’s slow as hell, yes, and there’s some mighty poor acting in it. I love the soundtrack, though. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/33 "2006-03-11T23:25:07Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > …snip… > List? What list? No one ever tells me these things! _runs off to search_ Worth Posting though it is a highjack > [@Arthur C. Clarke is quoted as writing](#): > > “Here’s the rough-cut of my best: I may change my mind on some, but not many…” > > Metropolis (1927) > Things to Come (1936) > Frankenstein (1931) > King Kong (1933) > Forbidden Planet (1956) > The Thing (1982) > The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) > 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) > Star Wars (1977) > CE3K (Close Encounters of the Third Kind) Revised version (Special Edition) (1980) > Alien (1979) > Blade Runner (1982) > Clarke goes on to say: “No way can I make it ten… I’m still brooding over Jedi (Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi), Khan (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan), [and] E.T. (E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial). Actually it would make more sense to have two lists: Most important, and Best.” > > Retrieved from “[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur\_C\_Clarke’s\_List\_of\_the\_best\_Science-Fiction\_films\_of\_all\_time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C_Clarke%27s_List_of_the_best_Science-Fiction_films_of_all_time)” ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/34 "2006-03-11T23:26:39Z")
I dug it out, but thanks, What Exit? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/35 "2006-03-12T07:22:22Z")
My experience watching TMP at home sums it up for me - I fell asleep while they were meandering along inside the alien, and when I woke up, they were _still_ meandering along inside the alien. (For the record, I love sci-fi and will avidly watch just about anything sci-fi related, and I _still_ fell asleep.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/36 "2006-03-12T13:52:41Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > :dubious: > > Hey! _Nemesis_ helped get a Doper banned! That’s no small feat for a weak sci-fi-ish movie. Who? And how? And link? I just have to stick my nose into other people’s business. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/37 "2006-03-12T14:19:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Who? And how? And link? > > I just have to stick my nose into other people’s business. [Cleverman](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=151355) This thread helped show up his basic attitude and was part of the Pitting that led to his meltdown and banning. I twas a wild ride, too. The _Nemesis_ thread was extremely mild compared to his running amuck in GQ and his reaction to the Pitting. ::sigh:: Where have all the fun jerks gone? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/38 "2006-03-12T14:35:13Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > [Cleverman](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=151355) [The Pitting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151595) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/39 "2006-03-12T17:36:56Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > \::sigh:: Where have all the fun jerks gone? Long time paaaassing… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/40 "2006-03-12T18:28:50Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > ::sigh:: Where have all the fun jerks gone? And where’s the pit-wise Hercules To fight the banning mods? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911.md?page=3)