# Was Star Trek - The Motion Picture a bad movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911 "2006-03-11T05:02:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/41 "2006-03-12T18:30:46Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Long time paaaassing… Why you keep me tisk you keep me tasking? You keep on asking… ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/42 "2006-03-12T19:38:53Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Long time paaaassing… When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn? ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/43 "2006-03-12T23:05:50Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > And halfway through, ILM was fired and a second-rate effects company was hired. Umm, no. The original effects company was Robert Abel and Associates and THEY were fired, due to the fact that they had produced no usable footage and time was ticking. The effects were completed by two companies, Trumbull’s and Dykstra’s, and if you want to call them second-rate, then go ahead, but I will disagree. 😉 They had to rush out the shots and some of them never should have made it out the door, that’s for sure, but they are not to blame. They turned out some spectacular work on a tight schedule. ILM was involved in ST II. /knows waaaaaay too much about this stuff 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/44 "2006-03-13T00:48:45Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > hey check out some of this trivia about Wrath of Khan from Wikipedia: > \< snip\> > “After the release of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, executive producer Gene Roddenberry wrote his own sequel, involving a plot he had touted before in which the crew of the Enterprise travel back through time to assassinate John F. Kennedy and set a corrupted time line right. This sequel was turned down by Paramount executives, who blamed the relative failure of the first movie on the constant rewrites demanded by Roddenberry. He was ultimately removed from the production and reduced to an advisory position.” Oh, man. If only someone had done this to George Lucas circa 1997. “Jar Jar _who_? George, put down the #2 pencil - you’re an advisor now.” : daydreams happily : ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/45 "2006-03-13T02:56:20Z")
I’m convinced that Trekkies hate _Nemesis_ because of what happened at the end. Specifically, they hate the fact that Data died. Taken on its merits, _Nemesis_ is at least as good as _First Contact_ or _Insurrection._ As for _Star Trek TMP_, no the OP isn’t missing anything. It’s boring as hell. As others have mentioned, it’s basically a one-hour episode with an extra hour of filler mixed in. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/46 "2006-03-13T03:19:35Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Taken on its merits, _Nemesis_ is at least as good as _First Contact_ or _Insurrection._ I’d have to strongly disagree there. The critical difference between Nemesis and First Contact is that “First Contact” brought out a well-honed villian (the Borg) while Nemesis trotted out a one-time-use villain, Shinzon, who was silly and boring and not the slightest bit threatening. He appears, he’s ruthless and kills people even though he’s charming, Picard and team kill him, and there you go. It’s been done. “First Contact” benefits from bringing back the Borg because A) They’re a legitimately challenging villian(s) and B) They’re already a park of the Trekverse, as it were - even with the addition of the Queen, which fits their insect-like state anyway - whereas Shinzon was just pulled out of Random Hollywood Villian Generator for Windows XP. To a large extent this is why “Wrath of Khan” works too; rather than coming up with a new and silly villian, Nicholas Meyer pulled out the villian from one of the show’s best episodes. It seems far less forced. By and large the best movies are the ones that draw from the history of the shows, like “Khan,” “First Contact” and to a lesser extent “Search for Spock” (Star Trek IV is really unlike any of the others.) Where I disagree with the general consensus is on “The Undiscovered Country.” I’ve seen it severalk times just to make sure I didn’t miss something, and I’m sure I didn’t. It’s an absolutely horrible movie. Christopher Plummer’s great as the villian but, unfortunately, the story is hideously lame and careens from serious to idiotic and corny from scene to scene. It wasn’t as bad as Final Frontier, but it was bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/47 "2006-03-13T04:02:12Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I’m convinced that Trekkies hate _Nemesis_ because of what happened at the end. Oh, there are plenty of reasons aside from the one you mentioned. I can think of at least five off the top of my head: [list=#][li]B4. What the fuck? _Another_ data-droid?[/li][li]Shinzon’s a clone of Picard? Why would the Romulans even bother? Not only is Shinzon decades younger than Picard, he wouldn’t have any of his specialized knowledge. The odds of successfully replacing Picard and no-one noticing… oh, let’s just say nil.[/li][li]Admiral Janeway (?!)[/li][li]Shinzon’s big plan is to attack Earth. Dare I ask what the fuck _for?_ His true enemies are on Romulus.[/li][li]Shinzon has risen to lead the Remans? I find that offenseive in a sense; the implication that a Picard-clone would be a natural leader. It reminds me of Tarzan stories which implied a white man of noble breeding would naturally rise to the top of whatever society he found himself in.[/li][li]Picard’s complete paralysis at a moment of crisis, forcing Data to sacrifice himself.[/list][/li] Okay, that’s six, but I was on a roll. 😃 Compared to any of those, Data’s death isn’t even all that problematic. After all, Brent Spiner had been playing the unaging character for about 15 years and it was starting to get ridiculous. > [@](#): > > Taken on its merits, _Nemesis_ is at least as good as _First Contact_ or _Insurrection._ Since I disliked all of them, no argument there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/48 "2006-03-13T04:24:18Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I’m convinced that Trekkies hate _Nemesis_ because of what happened at the end. Specifically, they hate the fact that Actually what I hated about the end was that they didn’t have the guts to follow through with his death. If you bring in a double that has pretty much the same memories as the original then you don’t really have a death. It just pretty much proves that other than Spock’s death, and perhaps Tasha, the writers of Star Trek cannot write a decent death scene. > [@](#): > > Taken on its merits, _Nemesis_ is at least as good as _First Contact_ or _Insurrection._ I’ll grant you that it might have been as good as Insurrection but that was a terrible movie in it’s own right. I can’t really think of any feature of Nemesis or Insurrection that were positive aside from the special effects. Both had rather weak stories though Insurrection had the weakest. > [@](#): > > As for _Star Trek TMP_, no the OP isn’t missing anything. It’s boring as hell. As others have mentioned, it’s basically a one-hour episode with an extra hour of filler mixed in. Agreed, it’s pretty dull. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/49 "2006-03-13T06:51:00Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > ::sigh:: Where have all the fun jerks gone? You mean jerks like the guy who demanded everyone turn on their TV _now_ {_ie_ at 2 am} to confirm what he was seeing on MTV, got pissy when no-one complied, hijacked other threads to repeat his demand, got abusive, was admonished by **Dex** , was pitted for it, and then pitted **Dex** in turn? Oh, he was banned. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/50 "2006-03-13T09:56:12Z")
> [@ddgryphon](#): > > In spite of the fact that Savvik (or is it 22 A’s and 1 V?) No, it’s definitely spelled “Saavik”, not “Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavik”. That would be illogical. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/51 "2006-03-13T12:49:07Z")
You had to have been there. Aside from the Animated Series, there hadn’t been a Star Trek since 1969, ten years earlier. There had been movies spun off from TV shows before (Dragnet, Man from U.N.C.L.E., McHale’s Navy), but nothing this big budget. When they made the original trailer for it, they got _orson Welles_ to narrate it. It was imopressive as all hell. Then they got Robert Wise — assistant to Welles, Day-the-Earth-Stood-Still, The-Andromeda-Strain directing (not to mention West Side Story and The Sound of Music) as director, and even dredged Isaac Asimov out of his unwillingness to be associated with movies as an advisor. And Alan Dean Foster to do the screenplay. They gopt the entire original cast back, right down to Nimoy (and even Grace Lee Whitney, fer cryin’ out loud) and got Star Wars-quality effects. It was Trekkie heaven. The first look was excellent. Klingons that really looked alien, if inexplicably different from the TV show. Nifty FX. Some of the acting seemed curiously bad, but I later learned of the high ratio of fans to actors in the flick. If you see really bad acting (“Carbon -based Life Forms?”) , it’s a fan. What really disappoointed was the very obvious way they’d basically cut and stitched three episodes together to make the movie. Chiefly The Immunity Syndrome (with the giant space Amoeba inside the black cloud) and the one with NOMAD. Their audience was rabid episode-quoting FANS! Did they think they wouldn’t notice? hat was easily the biggest disappointment. Nevertheless, they did a good job. I was suitably taken by the mood and unanswered questions. But it was still a disappopintment. I liked II a lot better, and evidently so did just about everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/52 "2006-03-13T12:49:12Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > B4. What the fuck? _Another_ data-droid? Yeah, I admit I hate B4, too. If I got a chance to direct a Star Trek movie, it would damn-sure involve B4 dying, with no replacement android. At the very least, his outer appearance would be changed, and someone other than Brent Spinner would play him. As for Admiral Janeway, well, I have a saying for situations like this. “Cream may rise to the top, but so do turds.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/53 "2006-03-13T13:57:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You had to have been there. …snip… Hey, I was there, I was glad to have the movie and I did a lot of Oohing and Ahhing but it was vaguely disappointing. The Video Re-edit was a little better but Wrath of Khan was so good, it showed how poor a job they did on TMP. Khan & Voyage Home along with Tribbles, Amok Time, The City on the Edge of Forever and Mirror, Mirror are the highlights of the entire extended series of series and movies. Star Trek at its best. Jim ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/54 "2006-03-13T15:57:39Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Oh, there are plenty of reasons aside from the one you mentioned. I can think of at least five off the top of my head: > > [list=#][li]B4. What the fuck? _Another_ data-droid?[/li][li]Shinzon’s a clone of Picard? Why would the Romulans even bother? Not only is Shinzon decades younger than Picard, he wouldn’t have any of his specialized knowledge. The odds of successfully replacing Picard and no-one noticing… oh, let’s just say nil.[/li][li]Admiral Janeway (?!)[/li][li]Shinzon’s big plan is to attack Earth. Dare I ask what the fuck _for?_ His true enemies are on Romulus.[/li][li]Shinzon has risen to lead the Remans? I find that offenseive in a sense; the implication that a Picard-clone would be a natural leader. It reminds me of Tarzan stories which implied a white man of noble breeding would naturally rise to the top of whatever society he found himself in.[/li][li]Picard’s complete paralysis at a moment of crisis, forcing Data to sacrifice himself.[/list][/li] Not to mention a bunch of miners manage to build a gigantic warship with an undetectable cloaking device. Nobody else has been able to do it, except a bunch of poorly educated guys who dig out the astroid all day. Sure, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/55 "2006-03-13T16:27:40Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Taken on its merits, _Nemesis_ is at least as good as _First Contact_ or _Insurrection._ Not to completely hijack the thread, but I didn’t think _Nemesis_ was all that bad. As an action movie, it was definitely superior to _Insurrection_; the final act was very tense and well done. And while the whole idea of Shinzon and his scheme were ridiculous, at least it didn’t half-assedly try to present some “moral dilemma” like the previous film did. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/56 "2006-03-14T10:03:17Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Hey, I was there, I was glad to have the movie and I did a lot of Oohing and Ahhing but it was vaguely disappointing. The Video Re-edit was a little better but Wrath of Khan was so good, it showed how poor a job they did on TMP. > Khan & Voyage Home along with Tribbles, Amok Time, The City on the Edge of Forever and Mirror, Mirror are the highlights of the entire extended series of series and movies. Star Trek at its best. > > Jim Line up _Balance of Terror_ along with those. Yes, it’s just a reworking of a WW2 sub-hunting movie, but it’s extremely well done and it’s impossible not to like and admire the Romulan Commander by the time he goes down with his ship. “In a different reality, I could have called you friend” – what an exit line. (Then again, what a choice of actor to play that part. Marc Lenard was the daddy of all guest stars.) ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/57 "2006-03-14T14:23:42Z")
I don’t think I’ve see TMP all the way through - I was quite young when I watched it and I think I just got bored and confused. And as for Admiral Janeway… I quite like _Voyager_, but if I were Jean-Luc, Captain of the fleet’s flagship for Og knows how many years, been turned into a Borg and back, going where no one has gone before, and importantly coming back with most of his crew… Well, I’d probably get some kind of nervous tick everytime I heard the name _Admiral_ Janeway. > [@Jean-Luc Fromage](#): > > _Admiral_ Janeway? _Admiral_ Janeway?!?!?! She goes gallivanting off in the Gamma quadrant for a few years after irresponsibly getting her ship in the badlands, puts a Maquis force in positions of command all over her ship and we hear barely a peep from her in years, and then all of a sudden she gets home (somehow), and she’s an Admiral? Of course, I’m not Jean-Luc, so that would never happen. As you were. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/58 "2006-03-14T14:54:25Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Line up _Balance of Terror_ along with those. Yes, it’s just a reworking of a WW2 sub-hunting movie, but it’s extremely well done and it’s impossible not to like and admire the Romulan Commander by the time he goes down with his ship. “In a different reality, I could have called you friend” – what an exit line. (Then again, what a choice of actor to play that part. Marc Lenard was the daddy of all guest stars.) I will happily include it and I will put in a good word for the Doomsday Machine. High Tension, well done, though it hasn’t aged as well. I get the feeling it was inspired by Saberhagen the way Tribbles was inspired by the Heinlein novel “The Rolling Stones”. Jim ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/59 "2006-03-14T19:11:20Z")
Ah yes, the Doomsday Machine. Commodore Decker (father of Decker head in TMP) is asked where is crew is and he replies that they escaped to the fourth (whatever #) planet. Told there is no 4th planet, his pained look speaks more than his line: “Don’t you think I know that!?” TWOK also paid some homage to to the submarine battle TOS ep. In the scene in the nebula, Spock notices that Khan is employing two dimensional strategy. Kirk takes advantage of this mistake and rips Khan a new one. TVH was a fun trip. It put us in the movie by showing the crew in our time. How would _we_ react to the HMS Bounty, to the new kidney pill, to the retarded Ruskie? And it gave us one of the best follow up stories in novel form that just begs to get a visual treatment. But, in watching the cable TV show of How Shatner Changed the World, we received some expected but still sad news. Kirk himself gave us the word that Paramount has said Trek is over. Period. Nothing new ever to come. Well, nothing new from Paramount anyways. Hopefully (as my insider old friend in Hollywoodland has told me is actually likely) Paramount will some day sell the franchise to someone who gives a damn and has the talent/vision/intelligence needed to create new Trek that is good, and not ENT or VOY type shit. Till that happens, Peace. And long life. (to which you reply…?) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911/60 "2006-03-14T19:29:57Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > … > Till that happens, Peace. And long life. (to which you reply…?) Live Long and Prosper [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-star-trek-the-motion-picture-a-bad-movie/347911.md?page=4)