# Was syphilis treatable before the 20th century? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 4, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241 "2003-07-04T15:09:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/1 "2003-07-04T15:09:29Z")
Before penecillin, I believe there was a cure. Maybe a crude form of chemotherapy. Reading a very little about the artist Tolouse Latrec, how he contacted it, and was treated, gives a glimpse of about 110 years ago. I can see it being recent enough in time for there to be a form of cure, or at least some way to contain it. Going back another century, I vaguely remember from high school reading Candide. The hero (Pangloss?) gets it, and is treated by a doctor. Syphilis, I’ve been told, can go into remission for extended periods of time. A sore or two will surface, than go away while the bug burrows into your innards. Was there effective (or non-effective) treatments or cures before penecillin? How far back do they go? My guess is that “way back when,” once syphilis went into a form of remission, it was assumed treated. People died from an assortment of lesser illments before modern medicine, so individual causes of death were not well documented for medical purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/2 "2003-07-04T15:20:21Z")
Treatment with mecury compounds, infection with malaria, all sorts of stuff. And that just in the 20th century. [From mercury to malaria to penicillin: The history of the treatment of syphilis at the Mayo Clinic, 1916-1955](http://www.imsdocs.com/syphilis.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/3 "2003-07-04T15:23:26Z")
[According to this site,](http://www.allsands.com/Health/Advice/syphilishisto_zkq_gn.htm) mercury and potassium iodide were used in the 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/4 "2003-07-04T15:41:38Z")
_Arsenic_. That’s another one worth mentioning. Still 20th century, though. (It’s in both of the above links). ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/5 "2003-07-04T15:42:37Z")
Mercury is first recorded as being used in 1496 in Verona [The history of syphilis and its treatment](http://www.allsands.com/Health/Advice/syphilishisto_zkq_gn.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/6 "2003-07-04T15:44:48Z")
And according to **Ice Wolf** ’s link, the Mercury treatment dates back to the 15th century. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/7 "2003-07-04T15:46:03Z")
You beat me to that, **Eolbo**. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/8 "2003-07-04T16:06:23Z")
My mother worked in a hospital in Dayton, Ohio during WWII. They had a special treatment for syphilis that raised the temperature of the patient. The reason that I remember it, is that Randolph Scott was one of the patients, which caused quite a stir. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/9 "2003-07-04T19:46:38Z")
Not to mention that penecillin is not an effective treatment for syphilis. Penecillin is indicated for bacterial disorders. Syphilis is caused by little teeny tiny animals inside of you. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/10 "2003-07-04T20:29:49Z")
Aren’t bacteria (in a totally non scientific sense) teeny tiny little animals? ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/11 "2003-07-04T21:28:35Z")
Yep. I got this from my brother, the family MD, and he always said that spirochetes, as protozoans, were fairly immune from the enzymatic attack of penicillin. Of course I’ve learned over the years to respect the SDMB. I went googling on this stuff and it seems that penicillin can be effective in large doses. My brother is outside goofing around on the Fourth so I’ll see what I can find out when he gets back… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/12 "2003-07-04T21:33:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMensch \* > \*\*Not to mention that penecillin is not an effective treatment for syphilis. Penecillin is indicated for bacterial disorders. > > Syphilis is caused by little teeny tiny animals inside of you. \*\* Indeed. And these “animals” are called “bacterias” ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/13 "2003-07-04T22:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMensch \* > \*\*Not to mention that penecillin is not an effective treatment for syphilis. Penecillin is indicated for bacterial disorders. > > Syphilis is caused by little teeny tiny animals inside of you. \*\* It’s penicillin, as in “penis”. And [syphillis is caused by a bacterium called Treponema pallidum](http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/montecarlo/clinical/syph.htm). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/14 "2003-07-05T01:43:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*\*clairobscur \*\* > Indeed. And these “animals” are called “bacterias” Bacteria is plural. The singular is bacterium. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/15 "2003-07-05T02:02:23Z")
Yeah, named after their discoverer, Dr. Bacterium 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/16 "2003-07-05T02:15:14Z")
**Monkey Mensch** , your brother, an MD, claims that penicillin is **NOT** an effective treatment for syphilis??? Where did he train? What’s his specialty? Penicillin is far and away the first choice treatment for syphilis, and still regarded as the _only_ treatment for neurosyphilis. No other antibiotic has been demonstrated to treat neurosyphilis. In patients with true penicillin allergies _and_ neurosyphilis, it is recommended that the patient get penicillin desensitization treatment so they can get a dose of effective medication. QtM, MD ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/17 "2003-07-05T02:26:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrMatrix \* > \*\*Bacteria is plural. The singular is bacterium. \*\* Thanks. Though I doubt I’ll remember this one… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/18 "2003-07-05T05:07:27Z")
There were numerous treatments for syphilis, before penicillin… just none I’d want to go through. Believe it or not, the Nobel Prize in medicine one year went to a doctor who treated syphilis this way: 1. He’d deliberately give them malaria. 2. Malaria would cause a very high fever, which often killed off the syphilis germs. 3. Once the doctor was fairly certain the syphilis had been killed, he’d give the patients quinine to relieve the malaria. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/19 "2003-07-05T06:31:24Z")
Let’s put it this way. Was there an effective treatment that wasn’t just as bad as the disease? Mercury? Did it work? If so what did it cause? I recall my mother was a nurse in the 40s and she told me the used overdoses of insulin to cause shock. That was before ECT. She said it wasn’t really effective. But it was that or a straight jacket. ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-syphilis-treatable-before-the-20th-century/186241/20 "2003-07-05T06:42:07Z")
And Doctor Heimlich, aged 83, is now researching, in cooperation with doctors in Africa, with human AIDS-infected test subjects, as to whether causing and then curing malaria in exactly this same way can fight AIDS. Google “heimlich aids africa” without the quotes and there are many news reports, like [this one](http://us.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/04/14/health.aids.malaria.reut/). In a hundred years, perhaps a topic will come up on what passes for a message board then along the lines of “was AIDS treatable before the 21st century?”