# Was The Beyonder the most powerful character ever, in the Marvel universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 20, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935 "2003-04-20T23:08:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/1 "2003-04-20T23:08:39Z")
Haven’t kept up with Marvel characters in years. Just wondered if anyone has surpassed him in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/2 "2003-04-21T00:19:09Z")
Jim Shooter said he was, but my money would be on Eternity or the Living Tribunal. Also, Adam Warlock when he held all the Infinity Gems could’ve smoked any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/3 "2003-04-21T00:39:01Z")
As of very recent Marvel cosmology, the Infinity Gems together represent a being called Infinity, which is exactly as powerful as Eternity. OTOH, both of these consider the Living Tribunal superior to them. That’s who has my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/4 "2003-04-21T00:44:22Z")
As of very recent Marvel cosmology, the Infinity Gems together represent a being called Infinity, which is exactly as powerful as Eternity. OTOH, both of these consider the Living Tribunal superior to them. That’s who has my vote. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/5 "2003-04-21T00:57:28Z")
Besides, the Beyonder was just a abnormal Cosmic Cube. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/6 "2003-04-21T01:32:21Z")
No, he (now she–don’t ask) was HALF a Cosmic Cube; the other half was the Molecule Man. This is what comes of letting people other than Starlin and Englehart write “cosmic” stories, and even they aren’t up to the task any more. ---
**Author:** ![torben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5daacb/32.png) [@torben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torben)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/7 "2003-04-21T02:25:45Z")
Okay, I’ve been out of the Comic book loop for a long time now too. Whatever happened to the Infinity Gauntlet? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/8 "2003-04-21T02:31:20Z")
The most powerful characters from Marvel _and_ DC were the cosmic “Brothers” entities from the _DC vs. Marvel_ miniseries. It was implied that these two personified everything in their respective universes, and when they battled each other, the Living Tribunal (and the Spectre) were helpless to stop them. Strangley, such megapowerful beings were interested in staging pointless slugfests between supercharacters. I guess they were fans of the “Street Fighter” video game. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/9 "2003-04-21T02:43:46Z")
Technically, if you recall ol’ Owen’s origin, he was trapped in a backlash of energy from a portal. I’d call him a tenth, if that, of the cube’s power. A portion of a cube, but not half. The story wasn’t half bad, for an ending that got rid of the Beyonder, either. Had to be done. Kosmos was pretty interesting, too. This is my 1,000th post. I am using it to nitpick comics. Yep, works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/10 "2003-04-21T03:24:44Z")
Owen kind of grew into his power level. He’s infinitely powerful, limited only by his mundane imagination (Imagine Kyle Rayner, only not as bright; or Johnny Thunder, minus the social graces). Since that Cosmic Cube was composed of two equally infinitely powerful characters, both “half” and “a tenth” are technically correct, but I’d stay with “half.” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/11 "2003-04-21T03:25:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*The most powerful characters from Marvel _and_ DC were the cosmic “Brothers” entities from the _DC vs. Marvel_ miniseries. It was implied that these two personified everything in their respective universes, and when they battled each other, the Living Tribunal (and the Spectre) were helpless to stop them. > > Strangley, such megapowerful beings were interested in staging pointless slugfests between supercharacters. I guess they were fans of the “Street Fighter” video game. \*\* Per your note I just [looked them up](http://www.geocities.com/theamalgam/brothers.html). Most.retarded. storyline.ever. This “brothers” nonsense is not considered canon is it?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/12 "2003-04-21T03:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > This “brothers” nonsense is not considered canon is it? As far as I know, it was never mentioned beyond the Marvel/DC miniseries. Of course, I didn’t read All Access, another miniseries that centered around Access, the character with the power to transcend the universes, they might have popped up there. But no, they haven’t been chatting it up with the Silver Surfer or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/13 "2003-04-21T05:24:18Z")
The character Access that was created in the Marvel vs. DC miniseries appeared in a standard continuity Green Lantern issue, so if he exists then the brothers do as well, at least in the DC universe. ---
**Author:** ![Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aslan_of_Narnia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/14 "2003-04-21T05:46:25Z")
I think it might be Galactus, despite the many fights between the MU super heroes would have you believe. He has this going for him: 1. It would take a device like the ultimate nullifier to destroy him. The ultimate nullifer, if used only once, could eradicate pretty much all life in the universe(perhaps it was just earth’s galaxy, can’t remember the destruction level that clearly). 2. He (supposedly) survived from the death of the last universe, and has managed to survive for around 15 billion years in **this** universe, and I’d suppose he was just as long lived in the last one. 3. He created incredible powerful people thru his own power such as Silver Surfer and Nova, SS being able to pretty much beat every superhero in the MU singlehandedly, and quite a few of them togther. So, he’s not powerful in the sense that he is snaps his fingers and you’re eridicated from the annals of history, more like he could destroy your whole planet thru his Heralds and then destroy it at the molecular level if he so desired. It’s also been hinted that his not so much a being as he is a _required_ part of the universe, a force of nature. In Earth X(or one of it’s spinoff’s) Franklin Richards had to become Galactus or the universe would go out of wack. He was the only one powerful enough to fill the role of Galactus. He was pretty damn powerful(created a pocket universe; fought and nearly beat Mephisto, a god in the circles of hell). That’s proof that you’d have to be unbeliviably powerful to even attempt to take place of Galactus. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/15 "2003-04-21T07:37:41Z")
The Beyonder was the most powerful, before he was retconned. After that, the most powerful is the Living Tribunal. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/16 "2003-04-21T07:39:48Z")
Wasn’t the Beyonder more than a character, but a manifestation of the universe itself? I’d imagine anything existing within a universe was succeptible to its rules (as set by its living avatar) and a successful attempt to destroy the Beyonder would in essence destroy the universe and ultimately everything and everyone in it. As for Galactus, he’s not all _that_. I don’t deny that he is extremely powerful and obviously immortal and has vast resources at his disposal, but c’mon. How tough can a guy that still has to eat be? I also think **Aslan2** is giving the Surfer entirely too much credit. I’m way out of the loop, but I’m positive there are quite a few superheroes in the MU that he couldn’t handle. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/17 "2003-04-21T07:56:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by soulmurk \* > **As for Galactus, he’s not all _that_. I don’t deny that he is extremely powerful and obviously immortal and has vast resources at his disposal, but c’mon. How tough can a guy that still has to eat be?** Galactus, if you’ll read his own one part miniseries from awhile back, is quite literally the twin brother of Eternity, and every bit his equal. The “Brothers” were a ridiculous part of an embarassingly ridiculous storyline and therefore they don’t count. The Living Tribunal is very, very rarely seen and, to my knowledge, has never done anything that has affected the Marvel Universe and is therefore never counted in my book. The Silver Surfer killed Galactus after Galactus revealed to him that he intentionally made him powerful enough to do just that. And therefore, in my book, he is the most powerful Marvel Character with any significance. ---
**Author:** ![Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aslan_of_Narnia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/18 "2003-04-21T08:11:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by soulmurk \* > \*\* > > I also think **Aslan2** is giving the Surfer entirely too much credit. I’m way out of the loop, but I’m positive there are quite a few superheroes in the MU that he couldn’t handle. \*\* In a fight, using all his powers, SS can and would kick the asses of most of the MU earth heroes. I’m almost certain that SS is at the top of the MU scale, either able to lift (pushing himself) either 100 or 75 tons. Very few MU characthers have that much strength. The only people that could likely be near him on combat are: Thing, Hulk, She Hulk, Thor, various asgardians, Wrecker. Factor in that this guy can use his board to move at multiples of the speed of light, and the fact that he can control his board mentally. Roughly admantium strength metal board hurtling at 10 000 km an hour + Really strong guy o’ justice = Hero Shish Kabob. Not that most writers would think(or be alllowed to do that) about having him do that. It would usally end with SS beating them by a small amount. The writers just made him too powerful to make interesting stories out of him though. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/19 "2003-04-21T08:19:21Z")
Now you’re restricting it to Earth heroes 😉 Earthwise, I’ll give you that the SS would take some names, but expand it to the entire MU and his ranking drops. Because you specifically said heroes I didn’t throw out the name, but since it’s even further restricted to Earth, I gotta say I think Magneto would find a new place to stick that surfboard. Years and years ago some friends and I used to play the Marvel SH RPG and to this day I feel that the vast majority of the superheroes and villains are playing possum. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/20 "2003-04-21T09:35:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by soulmurk \* > **I gotta say I think Magneto would find a new place to stick that surfboard.** You can sing that from the mountaintops if you really want to but it isn’t true. Magneto has no control over the material that coats the Surfer and is therefore as helpless as a kitten against him. I may not be the comic guru that Fenris is but when it comes to general Marvel Universe goings-on it’s hard to fuck with me :). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935.md?page=2)