# Was The Beyonder the most powerful character ever, in the Marvel universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 20, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935 "2003-04-20T23:08:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aslan_of_Narnia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/21 "2003-04-21T09:43:52Z")
Yeah, I concede that in close combat Magneto would kick his ass around, due to SS being composed completely of metal. Even then, thought, if he were to use my surfboard shish kabob idea he’d probably be able to do it at a speed that mags wouldn’t have any time to react to it. The only non earth characther that might be able to do it would be Gladiator of the Shi’ar guard. They’re both pretty evenly matched, or possibly more since I recall Gladiator being the strongest MU guy. However, Gladiator only has really dense skin. Eventually he’ll start to bleed or get injured. Not so with SS. His body is made completely out of some sort flexible but dense metal, which causes him to probably have an unbreakable body. Sure, you could shoot him with something really big but most conventional weaponry bounces off of him. SS, with his surfboard, has the speed of the flash. Gladiator is fast, but not that fast. Eventually, after about 10 000 punchs or so I’d think he’d be defeated. Don’t forget, SS never tires, nor requires food, sleep or oxygen. Eventually Gladiator would lose. ---
**Author:** ![Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aslan_of_Narnia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/22 "2003-04-21T09:47:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*You can sing that from the mountaintops if you really want to but it isn’t true. Magneto has no control over the material that coats the Surfer and is therefore as helpless as a kitten against him. > > I may not be the comic guru that Fenris is but when it comes to general Marvel Universe goings-on it’s hard to fuck with me :). \*\* Do you know what type of material he is coated from? I always thought it was some sort of metal, something Magneto could control. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/23 "2003-04-21T10:01:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aslan2 \* > \*\*Do you know what type of material he is coated from? > I always thought it was some sort of metal, something Magneto could control. \*\* You had to call me out when all my comics are 2,100 miles away, didn’t you? 🙂 It’s basically some sort of organic cosmic metal that Galactus probably invented for the sole purpose of coating Norrin Radd in. It’s definitely not any terrestrial metal. I’m not sure if it has ever been elaborated on beyond that or not. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/24 "2003-04-21T11:02:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shy guy \* > \*\*As far as I know, it was never mentioned beyond the Marvel/DC miniseries. Of course, I didn’t read All Access, another miniseries that centered around Access, the character with the power to transcend the universes, they might have popped up there. > > But no, they haven’t been chatting it up with the Silver Surfer or anything. \*\* Apparently the deal is that DC can’t use the characters without Marvel’s permission and vice versa. Given that Bill Jemas, despite his other talents, generally a f_ckhead when it comes to inter-company relations (see his [Marville](http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/snapjudgments/091602/marville1.shtml) [comic](http://www.the-trades.com/column.php?columnid=1394) (or, more aptly named, Mar-Vile comic) for a sample._) and given (from what I understand) that he’s only going ahead with the Avengers/JLA crossover because Perez, Busiek, et al strong-armed him, I doubt we’ll be seeing the Brothers ever again. A couple of other points; My vote is for the Living Tribunal as well. He’s more powerful than Eternity and he’s not as stupid as the Beyonder. I don’t think Magneto can affect whatever the Surfer is covered with: remember, he can only affect ferrous materials. Coat someone in, say, aluminum, and Magneto can’t do anything. (Note that some scientifically illiterate morons have ignored this. That isn’t my fault. 😉 ) Mags CAN affect adamantium 'cause adamantium is a steel alloy. (The business about it being a “resin” (from the '70s) has been studiously ignored. Whatever adamantium is, it ain’t plastic.) Surfer’s tough, but he aint THAT tough: Hulk and Thing have both knocked the Surfer around as has Thor. Odin’s in a class with Galactus and I suspect could also knock the Surfer around. Fenris \*It’s actually worth getting the first issue. It’s gonna be the Street-Poet Ray or the Brother Power: The Geek of the 2000s. It’s so bad that apparently retailers can’t store more than three or four together; if they do, the book’s stench drives people from the store! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/25 "2003-04-21T11:13:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*Surfer’s tough, but he aint THAT tough: Hulk and Thing have both knocked the Surfer around as has Thor. Odin’s in a class with Galactus and I suspect could also knock the Surfer around. > \*\* The Surfer has let Hulk give him a few love taps when he wanted to use Hulk to his own advantage but he’s never been in any real danger from Ol’ Jade Jaws. From [here](http://www.geocities.com/hulksmashes/talestoastonish93.html): > [@](#): > > Bad news here Hulk fans- Hulk has never won this fight. Hulk gets a couple of shots in here and there, but Surfer seems to be toying with Hulk in this issue and knocks him out when he glides him into a mountain. The Surfer and Benji have tangled over Alicia Masters in the past if I’m not mistaken but I’d like to see a cite of the Thing _ever_ causing Norrin Radd to break a sweat. Odin is a completely peripheral character that is rarely, if ever, seen outside of Thor books. I don’t think his power is well enough documented in the Marvel Universe to make any real arguement for or against him. ---
**Author:** ![Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aslan_of_Narnia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/26 "2003-04-21T11:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > > Surfer’s tough, but he aint THAT tough: Hulk and Thing have both knocked the Surfer around as has Thor. Odin’s in a class with Galactus and I suspect could also knock the Surfer around. > > Fenris > \*\* If Surfer was getting punched around by Hulk, Thing or Thor it was a case of the writer having “Batman can kick the crap out of any DC Characther, no matter how powerful” type syndrome. If he were to use all his powers and such, he’d probably only get beat if it was a combination of those three doing it to him. It’s just that surfer has no match in combat, and if he did he’d be able to get away pretty easily with little damage suffered. He really needs to be powered down to be made less like some sort of deity. ---
**Author:** ![MrMyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MrMyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMyth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/27 "2003-04-21T13:35:58Z")
That’s part of the Surfers main problem - he’s too damn unimaginative to do more than punch really hard or fire force blasts. Surfer has reality-warping powers. Even if Mags could affect him, he could quite literally make Mags head not exist anymore. He could revert Hulk to Banner at any given point. He could turn water into wine. I don’t think the writers know what exactly to do with him. If he so wished, Norin Radd could easily rule the world. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/28 "2003-04-21T14:28:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrMyth \* > \*\*That’s part of the Surfers main problem - he’s too damn unimaginative to do more than punch really hard or fire force blasts. > > Surfer has reality-warping powers. Even if Mags could affect him, he could quite literally make Mags head not exist anymore. He could revert Hulk to Banner at any given point. He could turn water into wine. I don’t think the writers know what exactly to do with him. If he so wished, Norin Radd could easily rule the world. \*\* Huh? Thanos has the reality gem. Or did ol Purple Puss give the jujube in question to the surfer? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/29 "2003-04-21T15:19:30Z")
Even the Living Tribunal is not the most powerful being in the MU. LT has acknowledged many times that there is the One Above All who is the end-all, be-all of cosmic entities. It’s been speculated that this would be God, and most likely we’ll never see this entity (‘cause our faces would glow like Moses’, I guess) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/30 "2003-04-21T15:20:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > **…one part miniseries…** buh? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/31 "2003-04-21T15:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Carnage \* > \*\*Even the Living Tribunal is not the most powerful being in the MU. LT has acknowledged many times that there is the One Above All who is the end-all, be-all of cosmic entities. \*\* The celestial being known as One Above All should not be confused with the Celestial known as One Above All. Re-LT & The Infinity Gauntlet Eternity, the Celestials, Galactus, Order and Chaos all fell before the Gauntlet. However, the LT was immune. When Triby told Warlock that he could not keep the gems, Warlock blasted the Tribunal. It had no effect. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/32 "2003-04-21T15:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Carnage \* > \*\*Even the Living Tribunal is not the most powerful being in the MU. LT has acknowledged many times that there is the One Above All who is the end-all, be-all of cosmic entities. It’s been speculated that this would be God, and most likely we’ll never see this entity (‘cause our faces would glow like Moses’, I guess) \*\* This is a political thing they do to appease the tons of religious nitpickers that write in to complain about Thor, et al being called “Gods”. Ethilrist: I guess I should have called it a one-shot? I don’t know what to call a comic that they only print one issue of. It was simply titled _Galactus_ IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/33 "2003-04-21T16:03:14Z")
**Aslan2** wrote: > [@](#): > > I’m almost certain that SS is at the top of the MU scale, either able to lift (pushing himself) either 100 or 75 tons. Very few MU characthers have that much strength. The only people that could likely be near him on combat are: Thing, Hulk, She Hulk, Thor, various asgardians, Wrecker. The Surfer’s physical strength isn’t that substantial. He can _move_ vast tonnage using the “power cosmic,” but can’t lift it with his physical strength (which is slightly below Spider-Man’s on the pecking order scale they published about ten years ago). Think of it this way: Stephen Strange and Kyle Rayner have the resources to move mountains, but lack the physical strength to do so. Same with the Surfer (although his physical strength is pretty formidable, just not in the “Class 100” league). ---
**Author:** ![MrMyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MrMyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMyth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/34 "2003-04-21T16:04:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*Huh? > > Thanos has the reality gem. > Or did ol Purple Puss give the jujube in question to the surfer? \*\* It was my understanding that the Surfer has _innate_ reality-warping abilities, or at the very least matter-transformation. No gem needed. Things such as boosting his own strength/durability as needed. He can literally change the rules of the game to suit his own needs. How do you fight a cat like that? What could Mags do if suddenly there was no magnetic field properties in physics? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/35 "2003-04-21T16:13:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrMyth \* > \*\*It was my understanding that the Surfer has _innate_ reality-warping abilities, or at the very least matter-transformation. No gem needed. > Things such as boosting his own strength/durability as needed. He can literally change the rules of the game to suit his own needs. How do you fight a cat like that? What could Mags do if suddenly there was no magnetic field properties in physics? \*\* Surf can boost his own stats by pumping up on energy. In _The Infinity Crusade_, he soaks up solar and other energies until he nearly doubles in size(he looked like the Hulk on steroids, in tin foil-except bigger and with bulginger muscles). Even unconscious, SS is rather durable. But if he, or any other of Galactus’ Heralds can warp reality, I’ve never seen them do it. Galactus and Firelord were both grieved at the death of Airwalker. If either had the ability to warp reality, they would have ressurected him. The best Galactus could do, was build an android in Airwalker’s likeness. If SS could warp reality why hasn’t he used this power against the Magus or similiar opponents? Or simply, in Classic Doper fashion, to use the Patois of The Puissant Posters, to say it in the slang of the sage Cecilites, Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/36 "2003-04-21T16:13:40Z")
When did he become ‘Mags’? I’m quite sure he would consider that name an affront to his senses :). ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/37 "2003-04-21T16:20:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\* if he, or any other of Galactus’ Heralds can warp reality, I’ve never seen them do it. Galactus and Firelord were both grieved at the death of Airwalker. If either had the ability to warp reality, they would have ressurected him. The best Galactus could do, was build an android in Airwalker’s likeness. > > If SS could warp reality why hasn’t he used this power against the Magus or similiar opponents? > > Or simply, in Classic Doper fashion, to use the Patois of The Puissant Posters, to say it in the slang of the sage Cecilites, > > Cite? \*\* Well, I’ve seen him fly fast enough to travel back in time to show Frankie Raye the first life that evolved on Earth. Other than that I can’t think of anything specific but, well, I wasn’t the one you asked for a cite anyway so I’m outta here :D. By the way, we have to remember that the Marvel Multiverse is not exactly a pillar of continuity. We’re talking about a world where Spider-Man can beat the Juggernaut but the Juggernaut can take down the entire X-Men or the Hulk without breaking a sweat. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/38 "2003-04-21T16:32:38Z")
An answer to the OP, as per [this](http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/b/beyonder.htm) site: > [@](#): > > The Beyonder was apparently the most powerful being ever to exist in this universe (although he was not native to this universe), and hence could do virtually anything, The Beyonder could manipulate incalculable amounts of energy and create and rearrange matter on a planetary scale. He proved capable of obliterating an entire galaxy. But I stress again, we’re not dealing with masters of continuity here. Not to mention that counting the Beyonder would be about as pointless as counting Onslaught. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/39 "2003-04-21T16:36:37Z")
Ok, just want to say that, I’ve never before read that site that I linked to above, so I don’t know how reliable it is but SS is listed there among an elite few with class 100 strength. And with that I’m going to get some much needed sleep. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935/40 "2003-04-21T16:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\*We’re talking about a world where Spider-Man can beat the Juggernaut but the Juggernaut can take down the entire X-Men or the Hulk without breaking a sweat. \*\* Which reminded me of the above answer. One of the reasons Spidey is such a great combatant is his use of slaps, and verbal cheap shots to keep his opponents to angry to think properly. The Juggernaut is an excellent example of this. He would be a magnitude more dangerous if he could only keep calm during battle. However, he always ends up losing his temper and acting without thinking. The Taskmaster has picked up this technique and used it to defeat Iron Man in the TM miniseries. ``` Which touched on another issue in this thread. Many of the individuals would be much more formidable if they only used their powers to the full extent. Toad is just a bum who can jump around faster than most heroes can hit. Then (in an issue featuring the ever lovin blue eyed Thing in a Saturday Night Fever suit), he realizes he can be more than just a lackey. He trains himself to use his abilities *offensively*. He becomes an opponent who can launch a kick or punch with amazing force and speed. ``` The Taskmaster is expert at using abilities to their maximum. He doesn’t just have Cap’s throwing skills. He’s thought long and hard on the how to get the most out of them. He’s done this with every ability he’s copied. Thanos and such could vaporize TM with one hand. But, TM took on the Avengers one by one and beat them all. More, when things started to go south, TM was smart enough to run. The overall champ would be somebody in the Cosmic class. But, I’d say the earthbound winner is TM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-beyonder-the-most-powerful-character-ever-in-the-marvel-universe/169935.md?page=3)