# Was The Bicycle a Bigger Innovation Than the Automobile? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 25, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733 "2010-03-25T13:20:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/1 "2010-03-25T13:20:29Z")
I always wondered what would have happened if the modern chain-driven bicycle had been invented in Leonardo DaVinci’s time. Some historians rank the advent of the bicycle as a bigger change than the automobile. Prior to the bicycle, people got around via horses (or walked). A horse and carriage was expensive, horses ate a lot of grain, and lived maybe 5-8 years. Because of this, only the rich could afford them. The bicycle was (relatively) cheap, needed little maintainence, and required no fuel. You could easily bike 20 miles (given decent roads), so commuting a fair distance to work was now possible. Contrast this with an automobile (in the early 1900’s)-expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and unreliable. So was a bicycle better transportation (for most people) till the era of the Model T Ford? ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/2 "2010-03-25T13:32:37Z")
I think the first automobiles were around before the chain-driven safety cycles were invented. I’ve always been amused at the thought of someone putting their feet on the handlebars of a pennyfarthing while going downhill so that in a crash, there was a chance of landing on your feet. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/3 "2010-03-25T13:40:38Z")
Of course Leo would have a lot of things to overcome. Lack of ball bearings, rubber for tires and so on. But you are right in that the early introduction of bikes would have changed a lot of stuff. Paved streets for example would almost certainly made an earlier appearance in big cities. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/4 "2010-03-25T15:40:06Z")
I dunno. You’re talking very heavy steel machines with single gears and maybe even solid tires. Even modern, wide-tired, geared bikes are less than optimal on rutted gravel, muddy roads (unless you’re a dedicated mountain biker). You can certainly do it, but a 20 mile commute would be mighty unpleasant and not notably rapid. Cobblestones aren’t very pleasant to bike on either. So before smooth paved roads came about, bikes would have had pretty limited uses. Would the presence of bicycles alone be enough to inspire the infrastructure of paved roads? ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/5 "2010-03-25T16:02:22Z")
Someone has once remarked that a bicycle is the only machine that you can carry that can carry you. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/6 "2010-03-25T16:12:18Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Would the presence of bicycles alone be enough to inspire the infrastructure of paved roads? Yes, as a matter of fact. Bicyclists were the ones responsible for the [Good Roads Movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Roads_Movement). > [@](#): > > The Good Roads Movement occurred in the United States between 1880 and 1916. Advocates for improved roads led by bicyclists turned local agitation into a national political movement. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/7 "2010-03-25T16:14:24Z")
[This page](http://www.fact-index.com/b/bi/bicycle.html) makes some strong statements about the social effects of bicycles: > [@](#): > > Socially, the bicycle helped to strengthen the gene pool for rural workers. It tripled their courting radius on the one day per week they had off and thus was a factor in reducing rural inbreeding. The two-wheeled, diamond-frame safety bicycle (basically the same one we ride today) gave women unprecedented mobility, and contributed to their emancipation. In the 1890s the craze for cycling amongst women, created a whole new set of fashions such as “bloomers” (a garment which is a cross between a skirt and trousers (pants)). which helped liberate women from the corset, and other restrictive clothing. (Though I suspect this paragraph was lifted from somewhere, as I’ve seen almost identical writing elsewhere.) By the way, the invention that made the safety bicycle possible was not the chain drive, but the pneumatic tire. With solid rubber tires, you needed large wheels to smooth out the ride and get an acceptably low rolling resistance. With pneumatic tires, you could get the same efficiency and comfort with smaller wheels. (The chain drive mechanism was invented [much earlier](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_drive).) ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/8 "2010-03-25T16:23:45Z")
> [@](#): > > In the 1890s the craze for cycling amongst women, created a whole new set of fashions such as “bloomers” This led to the [rational dress movement](http://www.fashion-era.com/rational_dress.htm). Bloomers wre invented slightly earlier, by [Amelia Bloomer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Bloomer). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/9 "2010-03-25T16:30:16Z")
The Wright Brothers used their thriving bicycle shop to tinker with gadgets like airplanes. > [@](#): > > Capitalizing on the national bicycle craze, the brothers opened a repair and sales shop in 1892 (the Wright Cycle Exchange, later the Wright Cycle Company) and began manufacturing their own brand[17] in 1896. > **[Wright brothers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers)** > > The Wright brothers, Orville Wright (August 19, 1871 – January 30, 1948) and Wilbur Wright (April 16, 1867 – May 30, 1912), were American aviation pioneers generally credited with inventing, building, and flying the world's first successful airplane. They made the first controlled, sustained flight of an engine-powered, heavier-than-air aircraft with the Wright Flyer on December 17, 1903, four miles (6 km) south of Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, at what is now known as Kill Devil Hills. In The ... ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/10 "2010-03-25T16:48:47Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Someone has once remarked that a bicycle is the only machine that you can carry that can carry you. Skateboard? Pogo stick? Inflatable boat? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/11 "2010-03-25T17:10:05Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Skateboard? Pogo stick? Inflatable boat? Kayak? Wheel-chair? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/12 "2010-03-25T17:50:17Z")
roller skates? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/13 "2010-03-25T17:56:32Z")
Segway? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/14 "2010-03-25T18:00:10Z")
Jet pack? ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/15 "2010-03-25T18:03:46Z")
Unicycle? Tricycle? ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/16 "2010-03-25T18:13:33Z")
[Rotorcycle](http://davidszondy.com/future/Flight/rotorcycle.htm)? (okay, 290lbs \*\*is \*\* a bit much to carry around, but still…🆒) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/17 "2010-03-25T18:50:33Z")
The motor car was well out of reach for most folk until after WW2. The development of the railways was probably more significant, it changed trading patterns, made bulk products and materials far easier to move, and this undermined local markets. A good example of this might be coal and iron ore. This had to be obtained locally as the cost of transport was too great, as soon as railways came about all that changed, high cost materials were very quickly undercut. You can also add that this was all part of the industrial revolution, which all took place without the moto car, and the internal combustion engine. The bicycle did allow workers to live a little further away from their workplaces, but so did trams, and so did trains. The demand for bicycles did lead to mass production lines, and many of the major bicycle manufacturers moved into car manufacture. You might say that the bicycle enabled further changes to industrial practice but I have a hard time thinking that without the bicycle it would not have happened anyway. I guess it’s differant in the US, however the rail network in the UK reached almost everywhere, each little collection of shacks almost anywhere you could name in the UK had a railway fairly near.This situation continued almost through to the 1960’s, and the real growth in car ownership only took off in the late 1960’s. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-bicycle-a-bigger-innovation-than-the-automobile/533733/18 "2010-03-25T22:17:48Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > The motor car was well out of reach for most folk until after WW2. > > The development of the railways was probably more significant, it changed trading patterns, made bulk products and materials far easier to move, and this undermined local markets. > > A good example of this might be coal and iron ore. This had to be obtained locally as the cost of transport was too great, as soon as railways came about all that changed, high cost materials were very quickly undercut. You can also add that this was all part of the industrial revolution, which all took place without the moto car, and the internal combustion engine. > > The bicycle did allow workers to live a little further away from their workplaces, but so did trams, and so did trains. > > The demand for bicycles did lead to mass production lines, and many of the major bicycle manufacturers moved into car manufacture. You might say that the bicycle enabled further changes to industrial practice but I have a hard time thinking that without the bicycle it would not have happened anyway. > > I guess it’s differant in the US, however the rail network in the UK reached almost everywhere, each little collection of shacks almost anywhere you could name in the UK had a railway fairly near.This situation continued almost through to the 1960’s, and the real growth in car ownership only took off in the late 1960’s. [THIS](http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html) item had quite a bit to do with it. Most UK cars were designed & marketed for the wealthy & aristocrats. The Model T was aimed at **the rest of us**. Big difference in cost.