# Was the Democratic Party always such a spineless shitshow? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 28, 2019, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207 "2019-06-28T08:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/41 "2019-07-03T01:15:33Z")
Here is a simple trick to cut through all of the confusing political realignments. > [@](#): > > Whatever political party southern whites identify with, that party will be hostile to minorities and hostile to democracy. Thats it. When southern whites are democrats, democrats are hostile to minorities and democracy (Jim Crow was very anti-democracy). Now that southern whites are republicans, republicans are hostile to minorities and hostile to democracy (anti-free press, gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/42 "2019-07-09T11:27:28Z")
When did Obama flip back on marriage equality? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/43 "2019-07-09T11:56:46Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > It has been almost two months since the treasury department refused a legal demand for Trump’s tax returns. The Democrats have taken no action. Why would anyone comply with any of their demands? I think they did hold the AG in contempt. That had to hurt. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/44 "2019-07-09T12:18:19Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Here is a simple trick to cut through all of the confusing political realignments. > > Thats it. When southern whites are democrats, democrats are hostile to minorities and democracy (Jim Crow was very anti-democracy). > > Now that southern whites are republicans, republicans are hostile to minorities and hostile to democracy (anti-free press, gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc). This is a common belief (the idea that southerners are “hostile” to minorities). Maybe people outside of the South do not understand the racial dynamics at play. Outside of the South and certain urban neighborhoods, there are very few Black Americans. It is easy to judge other cultures, but nowadays we call that xenophobia. During the Jim Crow era, we saw the Great Migration, understandably so. Today when migration is cheaper, easier, and more economically rewarding, we see no equivalent migration of blacks away from the South. Perhaps the issue is more complex than liberals in Lilly white america believe. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/45 "2019-07-09T12:24:19Z")
“Lilly white” areas tend to go Republican. Where people are mixed together in a multicultural environment, those areas tend to go Democratic. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/46 "2019-07-09T12:27:42Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > “Lilly white” areas tend to go Republican. Where people are mixed together in a multicultural environment, those areas tend to go Democratic. The South is by far the most “diverse” multicultural environment. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/47 "2019-07-09T12:33:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The South is by far the most “diverse” multicultural environment. The South is still highly segregated, and southern black Americans are overwhelmingly Democratic, while southern white Americans are overwhelmingly Republican. Further, polling shows that southern white Americans have some of the highest responses for racist views like opposition to interracial marriage. The most diverse multicultural environments in the US are large cities and metropolitan areas. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/48 "2019-07-09T13:06:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The South is still highly segregated, and southern black Americans are overwhelmingly Democratic, while southern white Americans are overwhelmingly Republican. Further, polling shows that southern white Americans have some of the highest responses for racist views like opposition to interracial marriage. > > The most diverse multicultural environments in the US are large cities and metropolitan areas. From what I can tell, this is only half true - the South is absolutely more openly racist and “culturally segregated” (i.e. opposition to interracial marriage, blacks routinely being called “boy” without it causing a giant stink and so on) but it’s also less geographically segregated than large cities like New York where things like school districting & housing discrimination are still skewed towards strict segregation. [Cite](https://time.com/4551029/john-oliver-racism-school-segregation-last-week-tonight/). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/49 "2019-07-09T13:27:52Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Then when their voters get demoralized and stay home the democrats stay ‘lets become even more passive and terrified of our own shadows’ And then to add insult to injury, we have to listen to sympathetic narratives about the rural white working class and how ignored and unpandered to they are. These people will never vote for a Dem, even if you promise them a million dollars worth of Golden Corral gift cards and a yacht. Yet here we are contorting our platforms for them and distancing ourselves from groups who are almost certain to vote Dem if you just make it easy for them. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/50 "2019-07-09T17:21:34Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > This is a common belief (the idea that southerners are “hostile” to minorities). Maybe people outside of the South do not understand the racial dynamics at play. Outside of the South and certain urban neighborhoods, there are very few Black Americans. It is easy to judge other cultures, but nowadays we call that xenophobia. > > During the Jim Crow era, we saw the Great Migration, understandably so. Today when migration is cheaper, easier, and more economically rewarding, we see no equivalent migration of blacks away from the South. Perhaps the issue is more complex than liberals in Lilly white america believe. Whatever political party southern whites identify with will be the party that treats minorities like garbage and attempts to undermine democracy. This rule of thumb has held true for nearly 200 years and isn’t going to change anytime soon. You may not like it, but its still true. Also one reason that blacks many not be migrating out of the south as much is because in the 1960s a variety of laws were passed that the south objected to forcing the south to treat blacks like human beings. LBJ passed several laws doing this, and this is why southern whites stopped being democrats and became republicans, to protest LBJs laws on civil rights. The only time the south has treated minorities with respect is when the federal government forced them to against their will (the civil war, brown vs board of education, the 1960s civil rights reforms, etc) Also are you really arguing the south wasn’t hostile to minorities? I’m not saying the north was perfect, but you really have to whitewash history to pretend the south isn’t hostile to minorities. > [@bobot](#): > > “Lilly white” areas tend to go Republican. Where people are mixed together in a multicultural environment, those areas tend to go Democratic. Thats kind of true, but a lot depends on geography. The northeast is fairly lily white but they lean left. Vermont is almost all white but they are one of the most left leaning states out there. At the same time a nearly all white state like Idaho is very right leaning. Also multicultural areas can be mixed. Large cities are multicultural and they lean left. But Mississippi and Texas have a lot of minorities and they lean right while a state like California that has a lot of minorities leans left. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/51 "2019-07-09T17:31:15Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > “Lilly white” areas tend to go Republican. Where people are mixed together in a multicultural environment, those areas tend to go Democratic. Isn’t Vermont, one of the whitest states in America, a solidly Democratic state? Contrast that with Texas, too, which is around 40% Hispanic but still a red state. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/52 "2019-07-09T17:40:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … Vermont is almost all white but they are one of the most left leaning states out there. … > [@Velocity](#): > > Isn’t Vermont, one of the whitest states in America, a solidly Democratic state? > … I’ve heard that. And I also said “tend to”. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/53 "2019-07-09T18:06:41Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Here is a better example of spinelessness. > > In 2016 Obama wanted McConnell to be bipartisan and say that the Russians were hacking our election. McConnell obviously said no, but on top of that he told Obama ‘if you talk about this, we will make fun of you and call you names’. > > Obama bowed his head and did whatever McConnell told him to do, because he was scared of being called names and being made fun of by republicans. > > Fast forward to three years later and the Mueller report is out. What is one of the major talking points of the GOP? “Why didn’t Obama stop this”. Obama did what McConnell told him to do because he was afraid of being made fun of, and now the GOP is making fun of him anyway for the thing he caved in over. Even Democrats blame McConnell, but Obama deserves a lot of the blame. Obama doesn’t answer to McConnell. Would Trump bow his head and do whatever Chuck Schumer told him to do if Schumer said ‘we will make fun of you unless you do what we say’? No he wouldn’t. > > Things like that are why the democrats are spineless. > > Here is another example. > > CT democrats are looking at health reform. One part of health reform is a public option which would drive down prices and drive up choices. It is supported by the majority of the public. > > Cigna told the governor if they passed a public option, they would be mad. The very next day the democrats gave up. It took the democrats one day to give up on their public option plan because rich people said they’d be mad. > > Republicans threaten to leave Oregon. Democrats promise to pull bills on vaccinations and gun control. Republicans leave anyway. Democrats then find they don’t have the votes for a climate change bill despite a majority in congress. > > Things like that are why the democrats are spineless. All it takes is someone threatening to be mad at them and they’ll fold like a cheap suit. And the person threatening them will be mean to them anyway. > > Obama did what McConnell told him to do because he was scared of being made fun of. And he got made fun of anyway. Its pathetic. I think it’s going to take something like what Gingrich did with the GOP in 1994 for the Democrats to overcome this problem. Fortunately we’re starting to see this happen with AOC and some of the other new Democratic representatives. It remains to be seen if AOC can be the Democratic version of 1994 Newt Gingrich, but I’m glad to see her trying. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/54 "2019-07-09T20:18:55Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > During the Jim Crow era, we saw the Great Migration, understandably so. Today when migration is cheaper, easier, and more economically rewarding, we see no equivalent migration of blacks away from the South. Perhaps the issue is more complex than liberals in Lilly white america believe. I don’t know why people think this. I AM someone who moved from the south for economic opportunity. If I had kids, I couldn’t have done it. I maxed out credit cards I’m still paying off 5 years later to be able to move. And we almost went belly up right as we moved. Its never easy, and if you are already “depressed economically” its no picnic to move. If people didn’t “owe me big time” we wouldn’t have made it. It got so bad we were looking at which shelters took married people. I’m not trying to say you are stupid or anything, but this statement is one of the _biggest stupid things_ I have seen on this board in a long time. Like, disrespectfully stupid. I am not calling you out personally, **WF**. I’m sure you are cool and all. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/55 "2019-07-09T20:21:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Isn’t Vermont, one of the whitest states in America, a solidly Democratic state? > Contrast that with Texas, too, which is around 40% Hispanic but still a red state. Honestly, without gerrymandering, Texas should be purple. I lived there all my life until about 5 years ago. I remember the second Obama election was almost 50/50 popular vote. Thats population wise. Geographically, its a lot like Rick Perry said “Blueberries floating in tomato soup.” The vast majority of people live in the Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio metropolitan areas. But Texas is like, really really big, and there is a whole lot of nothin’ that gets a whole lot of vote. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/56 "2019-07-09T20:22:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Contrast that with Texas, too, which is around 40% Hispanic but still a red state. While there are a surprising number of conservative Hispanics, I’m pretty sure that Texas’ super-red status is more the product of egregious and rampant gerrymandering, not some sort of overall redness on the part of the populace. The cities are VERY blue, and the countryside is VERY red, but the urban outnumbering of the rural vote is pretty much nullified by the way the districts are drawn. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/57 "2019-07-09T21:33:56Z")
Call me an idiot, but can y’all walk me through how gerrelymandering effects the general election? Does TX partition electoral college votes by district? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/58 "2019-07-09T21:48:32Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Call me an idiot, but can y’all walk me through how gerrelymandering effects the general election? Does TX partition electoral college votes by district? TX assigns all electoral college votes to the winner of the popular vote in the state. In 2016, that was Donald Trump by about 10 pp (53 - 42 or so) Gerrymandering comes in in the drawing of congressional boundaries - The 36 members of the House are split into 25 republicans and 11 democrats, giving an advantage to republicans. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/59 "2019-07-09T21:50:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Democrats have principles but no spine. Republicans have spine but no principles. That’s just how it is. > > What caused the GOP takeover in 2010 was Democrats’ total unwillingness to push back against the lies that Republicans told about the ACA. “Death panels” put several state legislatures in the hands of Republicans just in time to reap the benefits of gerrymandering following the 2010 census. Obama himself was particularly inept at defending his own law, giving inane babble about red pills and blue pills. Add that to the nincompoops who had totally worthless cheapo health insurance and when they had to upgrade and pay more due to the ACA, whined “Waaaaah! Obama said if I like my insurance I could keep it!” I don’t really buy that Obama didn’t attempt to defend his own bill. He tried desperately to do it, but was simply hit with a propaganda campaign that his still relatively infant presidency wasn’t prepared for. The real problem, though, was that the bill promised…change. And change meant uncertainty. The Republicans figured out that they could capitalize on that uncertainty, and unfortunately, since most of the laws provisions didn’t go into effect until sometime later, there was no way to prove to skeptical voters that the changes weren’t going to be so bad. There’s really not much Obama could have done differently. It’s a miracle that the legislation passed at all. I think progressives are fantasizing about having power that they just don’t have. The wish they could Tea Party the right the same way the right Tea Partied them. **Sorry, but that ain’t gonna happen - not until there is a major financial catastrophe that convinces pretty much everyone who isn’t living in some compound that the Republicans are corrupt as sin and that their version of capitalism doesn’t work.** I’ve been saying this for a while now and I’m more convinced of it by the day. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/60 "2019-07-09T22:30:29Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Biden, particularly, is just another Hillary with a dick (one presumes) and no backbone, no vision whatsoever, just a thirst for power and an eagerness to sacrifice all of his values to the highest bidder. Nasty shit, there. > > When the Democratic Party become this way? Climate change… evade, evade. Top concerns, evade, evade… only the not-normally-Dems were willing to say “it’s all fucked.” > > Why do you even need Republicans if the Dems are just willing to bend over and take it? When did they lose their vision for, well, absolutely anything at all? When they refused to take the blame for losing to an Orange Reality Show Host. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207.md?page=4)