# Was the Democratic Party always such a spineless shitshow? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 28, 2019, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207 "2019-06-28T08:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/61 "2019-07-09T22:37:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nice propaganda there, **did it come from the kremlin** or directly from trump? :rolleyes: The answer to the OP is “When the left embraced McCarthyism.” ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/62 "2019-07-09T22:48:40Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Back then](https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Democrats-used-to-be-the-conservative-party-and-Republicans-used-to-be-the-progressive-party-Is-the-whole-truth-more-complex-than-two-parties-switching-their-main-ideologies?awc=15748_1556388756_5ff85fbfc29766802fc2ccb77f37843c&uiv=6&txtv=8&source=awin&medium=ad&campaign=uad_mkt_en_acq_us_awin&set=awin), the Democrats were Republicans, and the Republicans were Democrats. Republican presidents who are thought of in high regard, such as Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt were progressives and would have been Democrats in today’s world. Possibly Eisenhower would too. All the great U.S. Presidents have been on the progressive rather than conservative side of politics. The best Republican/conservative president is therefore probably Ronald Reagan. Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus and tried to lock up his political opponents. FDR built concentration camps for Japanese Americans. Both went MUCH further than El Presidente will ever dream of. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/63 "2019-07-09T22:49:22Z")
**AP News –** An argument on the SDMB caught fire earlier today. Investigators say that it caught fire because it was made entirely out of straw. Film at eleven. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/64 "2019-07-09T22:53:34Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > **AP News –** An argument on the SDMB caught fire earlier today. Investigators say that it caught fire because it was made entirely out of straw. > > Film at eleven. Horseshit. Had to be an inside job. Straw won’t combust when all the oxygen has been sucked out of the room. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/65 "2019-07-10T00:10:15Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > Honestly, without gerrymandering, Texas should be purple. I lived there all my life until about 5 years ago. I remember the second Obama election was almost 50/50 popular vote. Thats population wise. Geographically, its a lot like Rick Perry said “Blueberries floating in tomato soup.” > > The vast majority of people live in the Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio metropolitan areas. But Texas is like, really really big, and there is a whole lot of nothin’ that gets a whole lot of vote. Texas is moving to the left, albeit slowly. 2008 election GOP - 4.5 million votes Dem - 3.5 million votes 2012 election GOP - 4.6 million votes Dem - 3.3 million votes 2016 election GOP - 4.7 million votes Dem - 3.9 million votes 2018 senate election GOP - 4.2 million votes Dem - 4.0 million votes So the democratic vote is growing much faster than the GOP vote, and the democratic candidate got more votes in a midterm in 2018 than Clinton did in 2016. Its possible the democratic candidate could get 4.5 million votes in 2020. If so, Texas may be a swing state by 2024. A big issue in texas is latinos don’t vote. Latinos and millennials need to be registered. I ‘believe’ Beto made this a priority. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/66 "2019-07-10T00:59:24Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus and tried to lock up his political opponents. FDR built concentration camps for Japanese Americans. > > Both went MUCH further than El Presidente will ever dream of. Lincoln suspended _habeas corpus_ during the American Civil War, and F.D. Roosevelt interned Japanese Americans in camps during World War II. You don’t think that Donald Trump would “ever dream of” doing something similar - or worse - if he was president during a civil war or a world war? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/67 "2019-07-10T01:51:12Z")
“Folks, little Dale Sams here has a terrible disease. Political scientists call it Conservative Inappropriate Comparison Syndrome, but you know it as Whataboutism. It’s too late for Dale, but others might be freed from this seeming incurable scourge if we act today. Give. Give your time, your money, and, especially, give your opinions to the Straight Dope. With your help we will soon post a thread titled “What about Whataboutism and when did it disappear?” It can’t happen too soon.” ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/68 "2019-07-10T03:03:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > “Folks, little Dale Sams here has a terrible disease. Political scientists call it Conservative Inappropriate Comparison Syndrome, but you know it as Whataboutism. It’s too late for Dale, but others might be freed from this seeming incurable scourge if we act today. Give. Give your time, your money, and, especially, give your opinions to the Straight Dope. With your help we will soon post a thread titled “What about Whataboutism and when did it disappear?” It can’t happen too soon.” I’m not conservative. You might want to save your money and use it to get the stick out of your ass. Also its not Whataboutism. The argument was that great presidents like Lincoln and FDR were ‘progressive’. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/69 "2019-07-10T03:08:19Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Lincoln suspended _habeas corpus_ during the American Civil War, and F.D. Roosevelt interned Japanese Americans in camps during World War II. You don’t think that Donald Trump would “ever dream of” doing something similar - or worse - if he was president during a civil war or a world war? Well since I didn’t establish that condition…and he WONT be president during a civil war or an extended global war involving a 100 countries… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/70 "2019-07-10T03:19:26Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’m not conservative. You might want to save your money and use it to get the stick out of your ass. > > Also its not Whataboutism. The argument was that great presidents like Lincoln and FDR were ‘progressive’. And your comparison of emergency measures they took during actual wars to their progressive credentials was completely appropriate. Right? Wrong. It’s totally misleading nonsense, i.e., Whataboutism. It can’t be defended. As for whether you’re a conservative or not… I’m not familiar with your posts, but the trope that the Republicans can’t be bigots because they ended slavery is one that is found only in the writing of the most mindless right-wingers. Your dipping into ancient political history is appropriating (notice the cool use of English) their Whataboutism in ways too close to measure without micro-instruments. Keep it up and I’ll keep calling it like it is. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/71 "2019-07-10T03:51:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > And your comparison of emergency measures they took during actual wars to their progressive credentials was completely appropriate. Right? > > Wrong. It’s totally misleading nonsense, i.e., Whataboutism. It can’t be defended. > > As for whether you’re a conservative or not… I’m not familiar with your posts, but the trope that the Republicans can’t be bigots because they ended slavery is one that is found only in the writing of the most mindless right-wingers. Your dipping into ancient political history is appropriating (notice the cool use of English) their Whataboutism in ways too close to measure without micro-instruments. Keep it up and I’ll keep calling it like it is. Thats a hell of a strawman you’ve built. And you’re not the first LINO ive met who defended concentration camps. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/72 "2019-07-10T04:25:12Z")
**Dale Sams** and **Exapno Mapcase** and anyone else who want to jump in: DIAL IT BACK. Stick to a discussion of the topic of the thread and knock off the personal swipes. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/73 "2019-07-10T05:18:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **Dale Sams** and **Exapno Mapcase** and anyone else who want to jump in: > > DIAL IT BACK. > > Stick to a discussion of the topic of the thread and knock off the personal swipes. > > [/Moderating] Sorry Expano. [Just when I had you in the crushing grip of reason.](https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/01/18/) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/74 "2019-07-10T13:54:20Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > TX assigns all electoral college votes to the winner of the popular vote in the state. In 2016, that was Donald Trump by about 10 pp (53 - 42 or so) > > Gerrymandering comes in in the drawing of congressional boundaries - The 36 members of the House are split into 25 republicans and 11 democrats, giving an advantage to republicans. They also do strange stuff like gerrymander urban/suburban areas that are essentially purple in with overwhelmingly red rural areas, so that overall, the vote runs like 55% Republican. They also do stuff like gerrymander predominantly Democratic areas such that they’re like 99% Democrat. Do enough of that, and you end up with very, very few Democrat-won districts, even though the state is in reality, a purple color ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/75 "2019-07-10T15:33:43Z")
I need to put on the record that I have never used the term “concentration camps” to refer to immigrant camps. In fact, I don’t believe I’ve ever posted on the subject in any terms whatsoever. I’m baffled as to what this is referring to. I certainly have never defended concentration camps in any other context from any time in history, either. An apology for this would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/76 "2019-07-10T16:27:33Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Well since I didn’t establish that condition…and he WONT be president during a civil war or an extended global war involving a 100 countries… Could you answer these questions, please: - Do you think Lincoln would have suspended _habeas corpus_ if America had not been in a state of civil war? - Do you think F.D.R. would have interned Japanese Americans in camps if the U.S. had not been fighting in a world war? - Why do you think Trump wouldn’t “ever dream of” doing something like suspending _habeas corpus_, or interning people, if the U.S. were in a civil war or world war? - Why do you think Trump “WONT” [sic], or will ever be, in a civil war or world war? While I don’t think these things are likely, I’m interested to know why you think it would be impossible for these things to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207/77 "2019-07-13T21:29:41Z")
There was an op-ed piece in yesterday’s Times about how congressmen don’t respond to the wishes of their constituents. Later on it said they don’t respond to the wishes of their voters. The second sentence is correct, but the first is wrong. For politicians these days after _Citizens United_ the voters are **not** the same as constituents. For pols these days their true constituents are the people–especially lobbyists–who donate to their reelections. And none dare call it bribery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-democratic-party-always-such-a-spineless-shitshow/836207.md?page=3)