# Was the economic collapse in Europe the fault of Socialism or the fault of the bad economy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 4, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263 "2015-07-04T19:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263/41 "2015-07-06T17:15:05Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > What European economy? What failure? The euro has worked fine for some countries, notably Germany, less so for other member states. Right. As I recall being a major prediction, the nations with strong economies and currencies, and good fiscal policies, would remain much the same under the Euro. The PIIG nations were likely to remain just as problematic. And the rest would be much the same as they were before. Is there ANY solid evidence yet that the Euro was a good idea… or just a _different_ one? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263/42 "2015-07-06T17:17:47Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > You could think of Greece’s problems as a combination of socialism + corruption. Either on its own would be manageable, but when combined, they are catastrophic. Corruption is corrosive and destructive no matter what the social, political or economic practice. I think putting Greece’s problems on “socialism” is almost 100% baseless fear-mongering from the US perspective, and smug second-guessing from the rest of the EU whose identical “socialism” is propped up by strong economies and reasonably honest government. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263/43 "2015-07-06T17:37:42Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > Some useful thought on the definitions of socialism may be found here: [http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/31567-socialism-means-abolishing-the-distinction-between-bosses-and-employees](http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/31567-socialism-means-abolishing-the-distinction-between-bosses-and-employees) but the title says it all. The “social” in “socialism” is the clue. By this author’s reckoning, and Marx’s, there is no socialist country anywhere, and never has been. There are no Scotsmen either. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263/44 "2015-07-06T17:48:04Z")
Greece had a poor economy before they were admitted into the EU, and many thought their application should have been denied. IN 1999 Greece had among the highest inflation rates in Europe and had an unfavorable debt-to-asset ratio, and had for some time. There was thought that adopting the Euro would help with that problem, that a more stable currency would serve to help stabilize the country. Greece circumvented these possible stabilizing effects by leveraging the better interest rates available to them as a country on the Euro by borrowing recklessly and applying the proceeds to lift wages and fund other socialist programs, rather than using the proceeds to pay down their already crippling debt load, as its fellows EU members expected it would do. When the world economy cooled, Greece was particularly hard hit by its inability to continue borrowing because tax cheating is so rampant there and so little is done about it that the government found itself unable to fund the ambitious socialist programs in place (extraordinarily high pensions available at relatively young ages, for example). So my take is that the problem is 80% economic,exascerbated by 20% due to socialism and socialist programs. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263/45 "2015-07-06T17:52:51Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > There are no Scotsmen either. There’s at least [one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65hOhj94ZGE). ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263/46 "2015-07-06T18:05:06Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > There’s at least [one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65hOhj94ZGE). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263/47 "2015-07-06T22:44:12Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Was the economic collapse in Europe the fault of Socialism or the fault of the bad economy? (World wide economic collapse). I am putting this in IMHO instead of Great Debates so we can have a poll. Please also give the best explanation if you can. Hopefully it will be a good discussion. > > I am going to enable the option to display who voted for which choice… I think the OP needs to clarify what time period he is referencing. Are you talking about the depression in the 1930s? As far as I am aware the the European economy has never collapsed. 🙂 At least not so one would notice… I am sure this has been answered somewhere in the replies, but I couldn’t find it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-economic-collapse-in-europe-the-fault-of-socialism-or-the-fault-of-the-bad-economy/724263.md?page=2)