# Was the fourth note in Heartbreaker a mistake? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955 "2004-07-13T20:57:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/21 "2004-07-15T02:45:44Z")
**Frank #2** has it. The song is in 4/4 time and it starts on the fourth beat of a measure like this: ```auto E :----------------|------------------|----------------------| B :----------------|------------------|----------------------| G :----------------|------------------|----------------------| D :----------------|--------0--1-2----|------------0--1-2----| A :----------------|0---3-------------|0-0-0-0-3-------------| E :------------- **3** --|---------------3--|------------------- **3** --| E :------------------|----------------------| B :------------------|----------------------| G :------------------|----------------------| D :--------0--1-2----|------------0--1-2----| A :0---3-------------|0-0-0-0-3-------------| E :---------------3--|------------------- **3** --| ``` See how the notes in red are all the same. Starting a song in mid-measure is not at all uncommon. There’s probably a name for it. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/22 "2004-07-15T03:29:24Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Speaking of Whole Lotta Love, is it a mistake during the Plant vocals only part that goes: “Waaaaaay down inside…Woman…Youuuu need it…” that you can hear a really quiet Robert Plant singing all of those lines a second or so before he actualy does? That backwards echo was completely intentional, a psychedelic touch added by Jimmy Page after the engineer (Eddie Kramer) told him it couldn’t be done. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/23 "2004-07-15T04:38:01Z")
> [@bnorton](#): > > Starting a song in mid-measure is not at all uncommon. There’s probably a name for it. A pick-up. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/24 "2004-07-15T05:11:33Z")
I concur. Can’t hear any mistake if Heartbreaker starts on 4, which is how I’ve always heard it. The one that bugs me time and time again is the orchestral part in Elvis Presley’s “Suspicious Minds.” No, I’m not talking about the fading-out-fading-in-fading-out ending (which is just a bad musical move). I’m talking about the orchestral and horn flourish that first plays after “would I see suspicion in your eyes”, the end line of the first verse. This is played rest-dahdah-DEE-dah with a clear silence on the first beat… Later in the song, this flourish is repeated after he sings “cause I love you too much baby” after the slow bridge and it is played dahdah-DEE-dah-rest. The rest of the song, he repeats the “caught in a trap/can’t look back/cause I love you too much baby” and it is played “rest-dahdah-DEE-dah” like it was at first. I take it this thread is only for complaints on vocal gaffes and instrumental mistakes, so I won’t make a list of the dozens of instances that the singer obviously sings flat in studio takes. Just the worst one, IMHO: Michael trying to hit the whole notes in “I’ll Be There” by the Jackson 5. Then again, he’s ten. That’s it, 2 Jackson 5 references in 2 days on the SDMB. I’m really not giving an accurate representation of my musical taste. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/25 "2004-07-15T14:04:16Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Music theory don’t matter, the only thing that matters to me is it _sounds_ off. It will bug me to no end. So I guess what they did is, if it’s not a mistake, they were writing their song and thougt “hmm, this is a novel way to start this song, let’s try _this_.” And since the album was recorded in about a week they didnt have time to think better of it. Not that it mattered most times for them, but IMO they really dropped the ball on this. As has been said, Heartbreaker does start on 4, not one. This is certainly not a mistake, nor does it sound like a mistake to me. This isn’t exactly a “novel” way to start a song, as artists have been doing since at least the 1700s. To me, it sounds perfectly natural to lead-in that riff with the note before it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/26 "2004-07-15T14:23:38Z")
Actually, for that matter, “Heartbreaker” doesn’t start on the one either. There’s a four-note lead-in before the one starts. Off the top of my head, there’s a zillion songs that don’t start on the one, including such folk classics as “She’ll Be Coming 'Round the Mountain,” “On Top of Old Smokey,” and “The Star-Spangled Banner.” So, no, it’s not really a novel device at all. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/27 "2004-07-16T07:16:01Z")
> [@bnorton](#): > > Starting a song in mid-measure is not at all uncommon. There’s probably a name for it. Pick-up, as **marley23** , or upbeat. I think pick-up is more common. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/28 "2004-07-16T11:26:54Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Speaking of Whole Lotta Love, is it a mistake during the Plant vocals only part that goes: “Waaaaaay down inside…Woman…Youuuu need it…” that you can hear a really quiet Robert Plant singing all of those lines a second or so before he actualy does? I’ve always thought that that was part of what made that recording special. I like the effect, even if it is a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/29 "2004-07-16T11:43:42Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’ve always thought that that was part of what made that recording special. I like the effect, even if it is a mistake. It is definitely deliberate. Page had this thing about _backwards_ echo. IIRC some of the harmonica stuff in When the Levee Breaks is treated the same way. Basically you run the tape backwards and record a delayed signal. Personally I think it sounds so unnatural that is does sound like a mistake, but Jimmy hasn’t asked me to produce anything lately. Pink Floyd often use a similar trick but just with reverb/cymbals not repeats. Page did use some strange tricks, like slowing down backing tracks. For example I think No Quarter was recorded in D and slowed down to C#. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/30 "2004-07-16T11:48:04Z")
> [@Lando Griffin](#): > > I’m guessing not, because > > a)It would have been easy to cut if it was unwanted > b)It’s had some kind of effect applied to it > > However, there IS an accidental vocal bleed-through if you listen to the studio version of _Dazed and Confused_ Listening to an interview with Eddie Kramer recently on the local radio station, the fact that it is there now is intentional, but it was a work around for bleed through from one of the tracks that he just couldn’t get rid of. Finally, in frustration, he tried adding some reverb to it, and played it for Jimmy, who loved the effect. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955/31 "2004-07-16T11:49:29Z")
My post refers to Whole Lotta Love, by the way, which might not have been immediately obvious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-fourth-note-in-heartbreaker-a-mistake/254955.md?page=1)