# Was the GOP always this bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 18, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550 "2017-07-18T03:39:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/61 "2017-07-19T01:59:04Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > The truly shocking part to me is the utter failure of the Democrats to consistently make their case to the American people that they are the party that better supports their interests. Eh. The GOP is a party that runs on low key white nationalism. We can dance around that fact all we want, but that is the reality of the situation. The GOP is the party that tells white christians ‘you are the morally superior group and the glue that holds society together’. As long as they do that and make dog whistles about protecting their privileged status in the US and denigrating all the cheating ‘others’ in society their voting base won’t give a damn that the GOP is screwing them on policy. There really isn’t anything we can do about it. The GOP has won the culture war with whites, and it has changed the electorate. The GOP can do anything, fuck anything up, etc. just so long as they pander to people who reject multiculturalism and social progress they are guaranteed 50 million votes. The dems can make all the economic and policy arguments they want, it probably won’t matter. The best thing for the dems to do is get their voters to actually vote. There are enough liberals, non-whites, non-traditionalists, economically insecure, etc. to give the dems power, they just don’t vote as much as republicans do. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/62 "2017-07-19T02:03:50Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … The best thing for the dems to do is get their voters to actually vote. There are enough liberals, non-whites, non-traditionalists, economically insecure, etc. to give the dems power, they just don’t vote as much as republicans do. This is true. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/63 "2017-07-19T02:06:15Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If you want people to take your posts seriously, it would behoove you to use standard spelling, punctuation, and grammar. And no, we don’t care that you’re on your phone. > > “Failures of church star separation” is a little more than a “typo”. I appreciate you doing nothing to address any of the points I made, and instead discussing how I was making typos on my phone. I’m on my PC now, should I resubmit my post? > [@](#): > > Healthcare - the GOP wants to privatize and reduce medicaid and medicare, strip consumer protections, cut subsidies for purchasing insurance and use the savings to give tax cuts to the rich. Paul Ryan wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program that will increase costs and decrease consumer protections. > > Weakening of education - putting Betsy Devos in charge. A poll showed the majority of Republicans think higher education is bad for America. > > Denial of climate change - do you need me to comment on this? > > Illegitimate wars - Iraq was mostly a GOP idea, 40% of dems in the house and 60% of dems in the Senate supported it, but about 95% of GOP reps and senators supported it. > > Gerrymandering - they’ve been sued multiple times due to it after 2010. In fact the dems won the popular vote in the house in 2012 but the GOP won more seats. In 2012 the dems won 48.8% of the vote, but only got 193 seats. The GOP got 47.6% of the vote and won 234 seats. The dems got more votes, and lost the house in 2012. The GOP has been told to redraw districts in several statues due to abuses of gerrymandering. > > Voters suppression - voter ID laws, making it harder to register people, cutting early voting, etc. > > Useless weapon programs - I don’t know much about this. > > Reproduce repression - the war on planned parenthood. > > Constituent avoidance - after covering up trumps crimes and treason, and trying to pass the AHCA many have avoided town halls. > > Incompetent malevolent cabinets - Devos, Carson. Also many position have gone unfilled. > > Entrenched racism - ha s been going on since the southern strategy. The efforts to delegitimize our first black president with birtherism. > > Failed drug policies - opposition to marijuana legalization. Sessions wanting to increase the drug war. The GOP cutting medicaid which helps drug addicts. > > Regressive taxation - GOP opposed Obama’s payroll tax cuts in the stimulus. Federal supply side tax cuts generally result in increased state regressive taxes to close funding gaps. In Oklahoma after passing supply side tax cuts, they passed regressive tax hikes on cars, sporting events and cigarettes. All regressive taxes. > > Anti feminism - hard to quantify but it is there. There is a reason most self identified feminists are not Republicans. > > Failures of church star separation - Mike pence passing a law allowing Christian discrimination. Please use facts and evidence to disprove these points. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/64 "2017-07-19T02:09:07Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Name one fact that Wesley posted. Multiple GOP attempts to suppress the votes were overturned. [https://www.thenation.com/article/5-major-gop-voting-restrictions-were-blocked-in-10-days/](https://www.thenation.com/article/5-major-gop-voting-restrictions-were-blocked-in-10-days/) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/65 "2017-07-19T02:09:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If you want people to take your posts seriously, it would behoove you to use standard spelling, punctuation, and grammar. And no, we don’t care that you’re on your phone. This seems a deeply inappropriate use of first person plural. > [@](#): > > “Failures of church star separation” is a little more than a “typo”. Do you need someone to explain to you what autocorrect is again? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/66 "2017-07-19T03:14:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Name one fact that Wesley posted. Here’s a list: > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Healthcare - the gop wants to privatize and reduce medicaid and medicare, strip consumer protections, cut subsidies for purchasing insurance and use the savings to give tax cuts to the rich. > > Weakening of education - putting Betsy devos in charge. A poll showed the majority of Republicans think higher education is bad for American. > > Denial of climate change - do you need me to comment on this? > > Illigetimate wars - Iraq was mostly a gop idea. 40% of dems in the house and 60% of dems in the Senate supported it, but about 95% of gop reps and senators supported it. > > Gerrymandering - they’ve been sued multiple times due to it after 2010. In fact the dems won the popular vote in the house in 2012 but the gop won more seats. > > Voters suppression - voter I’d laws, making it harder to register people, cutting early voting, etc. > > Useless weapon programs - I don’t know much about this. > > Reproduce repression - the war on planned parenthood. > > Constituent avoidance - after covering up trumps crimes and treason, and trying to pass the ahca many have avoided town halls. > > Incompetent malevolent cabinets - devos, Carson. Also many position have gone unfilled. > > Entrenched racism - ha s been going on since the southern strategy. The efforts to delegitimize our first black president with birtherism. > > Failed drug policies - opposition to marijuana legalization. Sessions wanting to increase the drug war. The gop cutting medicaid which helps drug addicts. > > Regressive taxation - gop opposed Obamas payroll tax cuts. Federal supply side tax cuts generally result in increased state regressive taxes to close funding gaps. In Oklahoma after passing supply side tax cuts, they passed regressive tax hikes on cars, sporting events and cigarettes. All regressive taxes. > > Anti feminism - hard to quantify but it is there. There is a reason most self identified feminists are not Republicans. > > Failures of church star separation - Mike pence passing a law allowing Christian discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/67 "2017-07-19T03:15:40Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I can’t provide a cite, but a friend of mine claims that Dems have traditionally started more wars than the Reps. This is a popular right-wing meme that I’ve heard for decades. It has as much actual fact in it as D’Anconia’s and Clothahump’s posts combined. What is true is that several wars occurred during Democratic administrations. WWI started under Wilson. Does anyone believe that we wouldn’t have gotten involved if a Republican were president? Teddy Roosevelt had been running around for years cursing Wilson for not entering the war. WWII started under FDR. Well, the Republicans had spent years being isolationist and trying their best to ignore Fascism but after Pearl Harbor…? It is to laugh. Korea started under Truman. Again, ask yourself if a Republican president would have sat that out. MacArthur could have had his nukes if a Republican were in office. How about Vietnam, then, huh? That started under Kennedy. Except no. If you bother to do five minutes of reading on it, the U.S. was in it up to its neck as soon as the French left in 1954. Where do you go from there? The Gulf War? Bush. The Second Gulf War. Bush 2. Heck, Grenada was Reagan. It’s a half-truth at best, and a half-truth is just a fact so stripped out of context that it seems to mean its exact opposite. At worst, it’s part of standard Republican Big Lie technique. If you ever hear this again, ask why nine of the last ten recessions took place under Republican administrations. Shouldn’t they get credit for those? Well, yes, actually. Bad example. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/68 "2017-07-19T04:25:46Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Please use facts and evidence to disprove these points. No, you made the claim(s); please use facts and evidence to prove your points. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/69 "2017-07-19T14:27:32Z")
I am another former, very conservative Republican who saw the light mid-2000’s. I now view Republicans as nearly 100% evil: They only exist to line the pockets of the rich and corporations. I am becoming more liberal every single day and the rate of increase in that direction has ramped up in the last six months. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/70 "2017-07-19T14:41:33Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I am another former, very conservative Republican who saw the light mid-2000’s. I now view Republicans as nearly 100% evil: They only exist to line the pockets of the rich and corporations. I am becoming more liberal every single day and the rate of increase in that direction has ramped up in the last six months. Sadly, the Democratic Party is also in the pockets of their Corporate Overlords. Nevertheless, they are less evil than the Republican Party. Too bad they nominated the _one_ candidate who could possibly lose to Trump, even though they were warned well in advance. Bill Clinton said, ‘I feel your pain.’ The DNC said, ‘It’s Hillary’s turn.’ They’re not even trying to connect to the Common Man. [FTR: When I lived in my native state, I was registered Non-Partisan. For the past 13 years I’ve lived in a state where voters do not register for a political party. (RCW 29A.08.166 Party affiliation not required. Under no circumstances may an individual be required to affiliate with, join, adhere to, express faith in, or declare a preference for, a political party or organization upon registering to vote.) I am a Liberal.] ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/71 "2017-07-19T14:42:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, you made the claim(s); please use facts and evidence to prove your points. I provided cites to counter one of your arguments. You have so far ignored my outstanding post, so I’m pretty sure the ball is in your court. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/72 "2017-07-19T14:54:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Sadly, the Democratic Party is also in the pockets of their Corporate Overlords. Nevertheless, they are less evil than the Republican Party. Too bad they nominated the _one_ candidate who could possibly lose to Trump, even though they were warned well in advance. Bill Clinton said, ‘I feel your pain.’ The DNC said, ‘It’s Hillary’s turn.’ They’re not even trying to connect to the Common Man. > > [FTR: When I lived in my native state, I was registered Non-Partisan. For the past 13 years I’ve lived in a state where voters do not register for a political party. (RCW 29A.08.166 Party affiliation not required. Under no circumstances may an individual be required to affiliate with, join, adhere to, express faith in, or declare a preference for, a political party or organization upon registering to vote.) I am a Liberal.] Yes, all true. The Democrats are the lesser evil. And rapidly becoming the much lesser evil. Wait not true: The Republicans are rapidly becoming much more evil. FTR: I live next to your state and in my state, they automatically register you in the republican party and they do not allow any democratic candidates on the ballots. Only slightly kidding, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/73 "2017-07-19T14:59:40Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > FTR: I live next to your state and in my state, they automatically register you in the republican party and they do not allow any democratic candidates on the ballots. Only slightly kidding, unfortunately. I heard on the radio yesterday, that four wolves have died this year. One was killed when it ‘wandered into Idaho’. I thought, ‘It should have known better than to go into Idaho.’ 😛 ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/74 "2017-07-19T15:16:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I heard on the radio yesterday, that four wolves have died this year. One was killed when it ‘wandered into Idaho’. I thought, ‘It should have known better than to go into Idaho.’ 😛 The anti-wolf hysteria around here is quite something to see. It appears the wolves are snatching babies, raping grandmas and on gawdammed welfare to boot! About as bad as the libtard snowflakes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/75 "2017-07-19T16:12:21Z")
The Democratic party is far, FAR, from perfect but it did have its most progressive party platform in decades this past election. All is not lost on them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/76 "2017-07-19T16:56:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I heard on the radio yesterday, that four wolves have died this year. One was killed when it ‘wandered into Idaho’. I thought, ‘It should have known better than to go into Idaho.’ 😛 It was obviously going there to vote for Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/77 "2017-07-19T19:34:52Z")
For well over a century, the GOP has been pro-business, while the Demos were pro-labor. But both parties were “big tent” parties and were often more united than divided. Many prominent Republicans in the 1960’s, 70’s — heck, even Pres. candidates as recent as Dole or Romney! — were intelligent moderates. You’ll get different answers about the timing of the fall to perdition. Ronald Reagan will get strong mention, but he was almost an intelligent humanitarian “RINO” compared with today’s ilk. How are two parties aligned? Labor vs Business? Whites vs Colored? Religious vs Satan’s spawn? Because of high mobility and the self-selected nature of today’s media, we have a new model for party division: _ **These days, people pick a party based on their cognition modality.** _ People who think with their temporal cerebral lobe gravitate to the Democratic Party. People whose cognition is dominated by a hyperactive amygdala (the brain center for the emotions of fear and disgust) gravitate to the Republican Party. _This sad conclusion has been confirmed by a variety of scientific studies_, and explains today’s partisan gulf. In the old “big tent” days, I could chat with a cousin from the other party and easily achieve understanding and compromise. Today the cognitive gap is too wide. People from one party know the other-party guy is speaking English sentences but the meanings of the sentences are drowned in emotion and completely lost. [QUOTE=Reply] The destruction of healthcare. Weakening of education. Denial of climate change. Illegitimate wars. Gerrymandering. Voter suppression. Useless weapons programs. Reproductive repression. Constituent avoidance. Incompetent, malevolent cabinets. Entrenched racism. Failed drug policies. Regressive taxation. Anti-feminism. Failures of church-state separation. [/QUOTE] ++ > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Provide cites, then. > … > At this point, the replacement bill isn’t even likely to pass. Where do you get your news, **D’Anconia**? Do you find all you need to know at Washington Times? When you’re sincerely curious about Hillary, what is the Search term you type into Google? Perhaps: “I think Hillary is a disgusting despicable murderer, tell me I’m right!” ? And the last sentence in that excerpt is self-parody. I’ll let **Chronos** explain why. > [@Chronos](#): > > So, in other words, they’re just _trying_ to destroy healthcare, but it doesn’t count because they’re too incompetent to succeed? OK, let’s go with that. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/78 "2017-07-19T20:55:04Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I appreciate you doing nothing to address any of the points I made, and instead discussing how I was making typos on my phone. > > I’m on my PC now, should I resubmit my post? > > Please use facts and evidence to disprove these points. You could start by listing the points in a straightforward way. You state: “A poll showed the majority of Republicans think higher education is bad for American.” That is not an honest representation of the poll. Pew asked ‘Colleges and universities have a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ effect on the way things are going in the country’. The option for the blank was positive or negative. The question had nothing to do with higher education itself. Of course, it is simpler to take the easy (and wrong) ‘Them dumb republicans are all stoopid. See they even think higher education is wrong!!!’ route. The question is are colleges and universities make a positive difference. Considering the recent [violent](http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-racism-at-evergreen-state-college/) [college](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/17/two-years-after-university-missouri-protests-college-cant-shake-negative-image.html) protests, college students violently [shutting down](http://college.usatoday.com/2017/02/01/violence-and-chaos-erupt-at-uc-berkeley-in-protest-against-milo-yiannopoulos/) [free speech](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson-street/articles/2017-03-06/the-dismal-and-violent-middlebury-college-protest-of-charles-murray), the fact that college degrees are [nowhere](https://medium.com/the-mission/four-reasons-why-college-degrees-are-becoming-useless-acb401064cbc)near as important as they used to be and that many new college graduates are basically [worthless](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/employers-new-college-grads-arent-ready-for-workplace/), it is easy to come to the conclusion that colleges aren’t providing the skills that are needed. The criticism isn’t that higher education is bad, it is that the colleges are universities are doing a horrible job at providing the higher education. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/79 "2017-07-20T08:08:44Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Was the GOP always “this bad”? Well, the Great Emancipator had his moments! 😉 > > Full disclosure, I am extremely liberal. To respond, I don’t think you need to contend the Dems have no problems - of course they do. And I think a response can admit some degree of hyperbole in the OP. > > My biggest problem w/ the current GOP is that I don’t understand what they stand for, that isn’t - um - problematic in one way or another. > > Republicans used to stand for a few things: fiscal conservatism; small government; a strong military. Also, generally resisting change on various social issues such as school prayer, abortion, gun control, affirmative action, etc. > > For some time, I haven’t seen the attempts at fiscal conservatism or small government. Reagan and every Republican president/Congress since has spent as freely as the most spendthrift Dem. Yet they keep claiming they advocate reduced spending. To me, likely the biggest ongoing lie in politics. > > Repubs support some reductions of regulators, but also advocated the creation of the DHS, and the Privacy Act, which increases government intrusions on businesses/individuals. And they favor increased law enforcement, and government interference in a woman’s body. So I don’t see how anyone would believe that the GOP supports a smaller government. > > I guess they still support very high military spending. > > But most of what is left, seems to be social issues. Religion, abortion, gun control, increased incarceration, opposition to gay rights… I think some degree of opposition to civil rights runs through many of these positions. It is fine for a politician/party to take a position on such issues, but IMO those really have limited importance in terms of governing the country. > > I suspect another thread for the GOP is state’s rights. For most liberals - and past Congresses - it was felt that expanded federal action was needed because certain states were not adequately protecting their own citizens. And it appears to many liberals that the states’ rights argument veils a desire to disadvantage certain groups/classes. > . You hit the nail on the barrelhead ;). I’ve been what I considered a rather strong Republican since I was 20 or so, but I always disagreed with the social issues. However, those didn’t seem to be as strong in the 80s or so as they do today. It’s late, and it’s hard to say exactly what I mean, but it seemed to me that until recently the economic, judicial, and fiduciary aspects of the GOP were its salient characteristics. As for me, coming from the rust belt of Chicagoland, I was always fascinated by who was Dem vs Repub. Speaking frankly, as I was growing up, the Democrats around me were not “social forward-thinkers;” they were staunch Union-supporters over all. Frankly racist, sometimes sexist, socially “conservative,” NIMBY, protectionist , tarriff-supporting, anti-globalism underachievers…those were the blue-collar Democrat party-line voters. It may sound weird now, but that’s how it was in the late 80s-90s. I was always the opposite of those viewpoints: socially liberal, economically conservative, so that meant Republican (if not Libertarian). Now it seems the same kind of people from that area who were the blue-collar Democrats all morphed into reactionary Trump supporters. I don’t know what I am anymore, heh, but I sure the hell can’t call myself a Republican anymore. But I’m not an anarchist Libertarian either. It seems that extremism is the watchword these days. Is there even a party segment left for people like me? P.S. I was a couple years too young to vote, but I loved Ross Perot–remember him? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/80 "2017-07-20T09:18:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Why they fought so hard against it, other than the reflexive denial of a win for Obama, is a mystery. It’s not what the liberals wanted, it rewards the big players in a conservative industry, and it directly helps the people who they claim to stand for. I disagree. I think it’s the same reason they pushed hard for alternatives to hillarycare, but once hillarycare was dead, they stopped pushing. It’s because they just _don’t want_ socialized health care. It’s not something they support. Their ideology is and has been against it. Take this as a neutral statement. Obamacare is as far right as you can realistically get for health care planning, but it’s _still_ an expansion of government, _still_ redistribution of wealth, and _still_ essentially a liberal move. Republicans don’t _want_ healthcare. Now, as for why they aren’t just coming out and saying that… Well, why _wouldn’t_ they be honest and open about extremely unpopular fundamental ideals? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550.md?page=5)