# Was the GOP always this bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 18, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550 "2017-07-18T03:39:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/81 "2017-07-20T10:30:49Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > The truly shocking part to me is the utter failure of the Democrats to consistently make their case to the American people that they are the party that better supports their interests. Almost like saying that women date rapists and murderers because the normal men don’t work hard enough to excite them. Just how hard should a party have to work to convince rational people that they would be a better choice than embarrassments like Trump and your GOP? If the answer is “very hard” then the real problem is with the people not the parties. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/82 "2017-07-20T12:12:37Z")
Gerald Ford was the last good, in the moral sense, GOP President. Ford was, morally speaking, the kind of person every President should be. Him, the EPA, and OSHA are the three good things to come out of the Nixon years. Reagan may have meant well, but the factions he emboldened and helped bring to political power did not mean well. Reagan I have some sympathy for because I do believe unlike say Paul Ryan, he did have empathy for the poor. He just truly believed market solutions were better. He was no Libertarian, and made no great leaps to undo the New Deal. While he was the forerunner of today’s current GOP, I can’t blame him in totality because today he’d not make it out of a GOP primary. His stance on illegal immigration alone would kill any chances he’d have if he were a young politician now. Reagan actually now seems more like a Blue Dog Democrat than a Tea Partier if you apply his beliefs, statements and public policies to the present. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/83 "2017-07-20T14:50:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I disagree. I think it’s the same reason they pushed hard for alternatives to hillarycare, but once hillarycare was dead, they stopped pushing. It’s because they just _don’t want_ socialized health care. It’s not something they support. Their ideology is and has been against it. Take this as a neutral statement. Obamacare is as far right as you can realistically get for health care planning, but it’s _still_ an expansion of government, _still_ redistribution of wealth, and _still_ essentially a liberal move. Republicans don’t _want_ healthcare. > > Now, as for why they aren’t just coming out and saying that… Well, why _wouldn’t_ they be honest and open about extremely unpopular fundamental ideals? :rolleyes: Of course, Obamacare is essentially Bob Dole’s/the Republicans’ plan that they wanted instead of Hillarycare. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/84 "2017-07-20T15:20:16Z")
Something I saw on Twitter that framed things in away that I had not before: the Democratic Party basically sacrificed electoral success in 2010 in order to try an fix healthcare. They should get some credit for that. The downside (and this part is just my addition not from Twitter) is they picked a Census year which made Gerrymandering define every election afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/85 "2017-07-20T20:08:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Of course, Obamacare is essentially Bob Dole’s/the Republicans’ plan that they wanted instead of Hillarycare. Obamacare is not socialized medicine. Obamacare sends people to a MARKETPLACE where they buy insurance from private vendors. No matter. Once the well-educated, uppity black man took ownership of Dole/Romneycare [BTW, OTHERS renamed it Obamacare; Obama did not], it became radioactive and untouchable. Hillarycare was already tainted by her woman’s icky hands that have been who knows where. It’s not just that the Republicans don’t want socialized healthcare (which Obamacare is NOT-- did I mention that?), it’s that they don’t want the government involved in health care at all, including knowing or caring whether people have any. People who through their own damn fault get sick should stop being sick AND poor and just get jobs where employers take care of health benefits. Or die already. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/86 "2017-07-20T20:36:44Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Obamacare is not socialized medicine. I didn’t say it was. I said it’s essentially the same plan that was offered by Dole and the Republicans (band name). > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > [BTW, OTHERS renamed it Obamacare; Obama did not] I’m good with calling the ACA ‘Obamacare’. Obamacare is a _good_ thing (as far as it goes). I wave the ‘Obamacare’ name in the faces of Conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/87 "2017-07-20T21:37:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I didn’t say it was. I said it’s essentially the same plan that was offered by Dole and the Republicans (band name). > … I didn’t say you did call Obamacare socialized medicine. This was just a good place to reiterate that those who object to Obamacare on the grounds that it is socialized medicine do not seem to understand that it is not. And those who may have liked it or at least been open to it when it was named for a Republican, rejected it when the public and the popular media renamed it for the uppity black Muslim, Kenyan-born President. BUT those who object to it even if they know it is not socialized medicine do not want gummint involved in healthcare in any way, not mandating it, regulating it, promoting it, or giving a rat’s ass about it. One of our resident trolls said in a post recently that the gummint shouldn’t have anything to do with healthcare. Period. Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/88 "2017-07-20T22:53:40Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > …Reagan I have some sympathy for because I do believe unlike say Paul Ryan, he did have empathy for the poor. He just truly believed market solutions were better. … You say that, but I remember being on a trip to DC when Ronnie said something like, “There is NO homeless problem.” I couldn’t imagine what I was stepping over and around as I trod the sidewalks. Didn’t the presidential limos and choppers even have windows? I worked in downtown Chicago, and regularly travelled to many other big cities (not NY or LA), but had not seen as many homeless in the center of town as I did in DC during Reagan’s time in office. Add in the whole ketchup as a vegetable and trees causing pollution type of crap, and you don’t have an administration that really means well. I’ve long believed Reagan got way too much credit due to his avuncular personality. He seemed so nice and happy, he HAD to be a nice guy proposing and supporting nice policies! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/89 "2017-07-20T23:27:59Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > You say that, but I remember being on a trip to DC when Ronnie said something like, “There is NO homeless problem.” … Reagan was also the one who ignored the AIDS problem until he was shamed into admitting it existed. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/90 "2017-07-21T00:57:32Z")
I bailed out somewhere around 2004 and my views have not really changed much along the way. So, I kinda figure that they bailed on me. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550/91 "2017-07-21T03:01:40Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Reagan may have meant well, but the factions he emboldened and helped bring to political power did not mean well. Reagan I have some sympathy for because I do believe unlike say Paul Ryan, he did have empathy for the poor. He just truly believed market solutions were better. He was no Libertarian, and made no great leaps to undo the New Deal. While he was the forerunner of today’s current GOP, I can’t blame him in totality because today he’d not make it out of a GOP primary. His stance on illegal immigration alone would kill any chances he’d have if he were a young politician now. Reagan actually now seems more like a Blue Dog Democrat than a Tea Partier if you apply his beliefs, statements and public policies to the present. I disagree with all of this. Reagan pursued a deliberate policy of destroying cities by cutting off all federal funding and grant money. This was not merely to appease the base of white rural voters, the so-called Reagan Democrats who coalesced into the Tea Party, but because he truly believed the myths he told about welfare queens and drug addicts. The major cities were not unsalvagable. As we’ve seen, they are rebounding nicely today, so nicely they are a massive attractor of envy from Trump voters. The Republicans did not turn the cities around: they turned themselves around, ironically while Republicans were blasting them continually and unmercifully for decades over their crime and drugs and loose morals, all afflictions now hitting the rural areas they live in. But Trump voters don’t see the historic parallels, and don’t realize that the horrors of those lost decades could have been eased if the federal government hadn’t been taking money away from the Rust Belt and sinking it into the Sun Belt where their voters were moving to. You got what you wanted, Trumpers. You yelled and screamed and vilified cities. They ignored you and put themselves back on their feet while you sank complacently into a hell of your own making. As tragedies go, it’s virtually Shakespearean. But you’re against wisdom and knowledge and reading and history and culture, so you’ll never understand what you’ve done. You’d rather remain furious that the world you tried to destroy isn’t rushing to pull you out of your own shitpiles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-gop-always-this-bad/791550.md?page=4)