# Was the M 1917 Enfield rifle used in basic training for WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 24, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701 "2021-04-24T15:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/1 "2021-04-24T15:42:48Z")
Not clear from my research that it was or that it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/2 "2021-04-24T16:01:04Z")
Which country? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/3 "2021-04-24T18:38:52Z")
M1917 is the U.S. designation, so I presume the OP is asking about basic training in the U.S. Before and during WWII, reconditioned M1917 rifles were used for Reserve forces and training. My father, who retired as a U.S. Navy Lieutenant (O3), got his start when he enlisted in the U.S. Army (Signal Corps?) in 1945. I recall him mentioning he was issued a ‘U.S. Army Springfield Nineteen-Oh-Three-A-Three’ (i.e., M1903A3). ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/4 "2021-04-24T19:25:14Z")
Yes, I was referring to its use in US Army basic training during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/5 "2021-04-24T21:15:32Z")
Roy Dunlap notes, in his book about his wartime experiences, that some of their replacements coming in (1944) had done all their training with M1917 Enfields and hadn’t met the M1 at all. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/6 "2021-04-26T01:39:52Z")
According to [Trench Fighter: The M1917 Enfield Served US Troops in WWI, WWII](https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/rifles/m1917-enfield-rifle/) the M1917 was primarily used for training in WWII: _While the M1903 saw a surprising amount of combat service during WWII as a supplement to the M1, the M1917 was used primarily for training purposes._ ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/7 "2021-04-26T02:24:24Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > the M1917 was primarily used for training in WWII The M1917 Enfield did see a fair amount of use early on in WWII, mostly due to shortages of other rifles. The M1917 was issued to artillery and mortar crews, and soldiers in rear units that were not likely to see battle were often issued M1917s. A lot of M1917s were also given to allies for lend-lease. But yeah, the ones that stayed in U.S. hands (i.e. not sent somewhere else for lend-lease) were primarily used for training. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/8 "2021-04-26T02:56:23Z")
I believe many were sent to the Philippine Defense Forces, and China got many of them. I’ve never fired one, but some people say it’s a better rifle than the 1903 Springfield. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1gP43fa-ujk/maxresdefault.jpg "Mae's Top 10 Rifles of WWI") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gP43fa-ujk) ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/9 "2021-04-26T02:59:01Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > I believe many were sent to the Philippine Defense Forces Yep. They got captured by the Japanese. I think most of those were destroyed by the U.S. after they were recaptured. Some ended up in Canada. I don’t know where else they went off the top of my head. I have also heard that they were a good rifle, but I have also never fired one. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/10 "2021-04-26T03:03:38Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I have also heard that they were a good rifle, ‘Could hit a barn door’. Damning with faint praise, but better than ‘couldn’t hit a barn door’. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/11 "2021-04-26T03:22:36Z")
I found a video of Ian from Forgotten Weapons in a 2-gun match with an Eddystone M1917 and a M1911 pistol. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JZLKtm7HcG4/maxresdefault.jpg "2-Gun Action Challenge Match: US WWI Infantry (M1917 & M1911)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZLKtm7HcG4) According to Ian, the M1917 was “fantastic” (he agreed with the General Hatcher quote that the M1917 was the best rifle of WWI) and the only down side to it was the weapon’s weight. Having never fired one myself, I’ll take Ian’s word on it. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/12 "2021-04-26T06:21:20Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I found a video of Ian from Forgotten Weapons in a 2-gun match with an Eddystone M1917 and a M1911 pistol. For those who don’t know, Ian McCollum of Forgotten Weapons is basically the Cecil Adams of firearms. His channel has (a lot) more competence and way less shouty bravado than I’ve come to expect from firearms media. Five stars. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/13 "2021-04-26T15:00:16Z")
I watched a few of his videos last night. Not bad. Some good (albeit very niche) history injected into some of them. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/14 "2021-04-26T20:07:59Z")
Agreed. I like Ian’s videos. He gets some unusual firearms, too. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/15 "2021-04-26T22:13:59Z")
I have a Eddystone M1917. It’s a not a bad gun, with the original iron sights I can reliably hit metal targets at 200 and 300 yards probably about 80% of the time. But that is based on shooting it several years ago when I shot more often. I ought to take it out again once these spring winds go away. What is indisputable is that it’s heavy. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/16 "2021-04-28T15:53:02Z")
There’s something mind-blowing about the fact that a war between major powers was fought with bolt-action rifles, within living memory. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/17 "2021-04-28T16:49:24Z")
If you like [_Forgotten Weapons_](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrfKGpvbEQXcbe68dzXgJuA) and Ian’s testosterone light handling of weapons, and are interested in the history of weapons then you really, really, want to check out [_C&Rsenal_](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClq1dvO44aNovUUy0SiSDOQ). Also, [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jWrRowbvVio/maxresdefault.jpg "Small Arms of WWI Primer 028: U.S. Rifle Model of 1917") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWrRowbvVio) ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/18 "2021-04-29T23:16:43Z")
See post #8. I find C&Rsenal videos to be interesting but rather loooonnggg. > [@Lamoral](#): > > There’s something mind-blowing about the fact that a war between major powers was fought with bolt-action rifles, within living memory. I’m amazed that some of these Great War rifles are still in use over 100 years later. I’ve shot SMLE MK III, Springfield 1903, and Mauser Kar 98 (technically WWII). All fine rifles. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/19 "2021-04-29T23:49:50Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > I’ve shot SMLE MK III, Springfield 1903, and Mauser Kar 98 (technically WWII). All fine rifles. I own a K98 (1942) and a Mosin-Nagant (1938). They are both good rifles. I also own a Type 99 Arisaka (not sure of the year but it went through WWII). I’ve never shot it since it’s very difficult to find ammo for it. The K98’s went downhill as the war dragged on. You can tell the crappy ones because they didn’t bother giving it a bayonet lug or a cleaning rod. The little metal disk on the side of the stock that allows you to disassemble the bolt was also removed and a little hole was drilled in the butt plate (which was also simplified) instead. The wood was also low quality. Mine is early enough that it’s still the original configuration before they started simplifying wartime production. A lot of bolt action rifles including the K98 and Mosin-Nagant were used by Iraqi insurgents, along with more modern weapons like the AK47, during the 2nd Gulf War and all throughout U.S. occupation until 2011. There’s probably still some in use in that part of the world today. Danish dog sled patrols still use the M1917, due to the higher reliability in harsh arctic conditions of the bolt action compared to a more modern semi-auto rifle. > **[Sirius Dog Sled Patrol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol)** > > The Sirius Dog Sled Patrol (Danish: Slædepatruljen Sirius), known informally as Siriuspatruljen (the Sirius Patrol) and formerly known as North-East Greenland Sledge Patrol and Resolute Dog Sled Patrol, is an elite Danish naval unit. It conducts long-range reconnaissance patrolling, and enforces Danish sovereignty in the Arctic wilderness of northern and eastern Greenland, an area that includes the Northeast Greenland National Park, which is the largest national park in the world. Patrollin The S... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701/20 "2021-04-30T01:46:21Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > I’ve shot SMLE MK III… and Mauser Kar 98 (technically WWII). I have an ‘SMLE’ (Lee-Enfield Rifle No. 4), but I’ve never fired it. I have a 1917 Spandau Mauser Gew-98, but the chamber was so corroded I converted it into a WWII Kar-98. I have a Yugoslavian K-98 in a box with accessories, but I’ve never fired it. The Gew-98 kicks like a mule. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-m-1917-enfield-rifle-used-in-basic-training-for-wwii/940701.md?page=2)