# Was the Nick Berg decapitation video a fake? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 20, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123 "2004-05-20T04:58:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/1 "2004-05-20T04:58:46Z")
The Tinfoil Hat Brigade now sez that it was a hoax, part of a deliberate disinfo campaign by The Powers That Be. [http://www.rense.com/general53/bergvideosaidfake.htm](http://www.rense.com/general53/bergvideosaidfake.htm) > [@](#): > > Berg Video Said Fake - > Taped In Abu Ghraib Prison > By Hector Carreon > La Voz de Aztlan > 5-17-4 > (ACN) - There is now ample evidence that the video showing the decapitation of 26 year old Nicholas Berg of Philadelphia by purported Al Queda members is a complete fraud. The real Nick Berg may or may not be dead, but the heavily edited video is nothing but a fake. > > This is the conclusion of La Voz de Aztlan after a frame by frame analysis and the conclusion of hundreds of film, medical and other experts world wide who downloaded, viewed and analyzed the video as well. Literally thousands of persons world wide requested the video, which is rapidly disappearing from the Internet, after our news service published “Nick Berg decapitation video declared a fraud by medical doctor” on Wednesday May 12 and which was linked by other independent news services on the internet. > > With the advent of the Internet, computers and sophisticated programs it has become increasingly difficult for governments to “pull the wool” over the eyes of their citizens. The Internet has essentially allowed freedom loving people around the world to form communication networks that can now out compete the best intelligence government agencies or special operations groups. This has certainly been the case with the hastily released and shoddy video showing five phoney Al queda members participating in the decapitation of Nicholas Berg that was intended, exclusively, to defray attention from the scandalous sexual abuses of Iraqi POW’s that took place at the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad. Evidence in fact shows that the Berg decapitation was filmed inside the walls of the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, this cursed dungeon where probably Satan himself roams its corridors. [http://www.breakfornews.com/iraqatrix.htm](http://www.breakfornews.com/iraqatrix.htm) > [@](#): > > Iraqatrix: The S&M PsyOp > Torture psyop ends in Passion of Nick > [http://www.BreakForNews.com/iraqatrix.htm](http://www.BreakForNews.com/iraqatrix.htm) > by Fintan Dunne, Editor > [BreakForNews.com](http://BreakForNews.com) > 18th May, 2004 10pmET > By now, you must know the Nick Berg beheading video was some kind of fake or scam. How could you not know? The Internet is abuzz with details of a host of video anomalies. > > Face it. You have just been PsyOped. Brutally. Shrewdly. > > The Berg video was part of a PsyOp which has escalated in recent months. The aim is to traumatize you with images of brutal abuse --to foster a facsist social mindset in support of the so-called War on Terror. > > The alternative media in the US is fumbling to put it’s finger on why it all seems so wierd. But the crafted misdirection that the abuse photos were ‘revealed’ by a CBS investigation, cleverly covers the reality that the photos were designed from the beginning for public release. And, **yes,** I’m “considering the source”, and **yes,** I know it’s Rense and Fintan Dunne. Still, looking for the Straight Dope. Anybody care to address this? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/2 "2004-05-20T05:51:17Z")
I have no comment on the technical or visual evidence said to suggest that the video was a fake. I just think that, other considerations aside, it’s extremely unlikely to have been a fake because it is so damaging to the Administrations position. True, in the short term it may have served to draw some of the political sting out of media coverage of the prisoner abuse issue, but in the medium and longer term it has the capacity to be extremely damaging. A few thoughts: - It’s part of a pattern of events, starting with the Fallujah lynchings, that creates the strong impression that the US authorities in Iraq are steadily losing control, and that the situation is progressively deteriorating. Sure, that impression would be there anyway, but it reinforces it. - It must be seriously damaging to attempts to encourage foreign investment in Iraq, which in turn will retard reconstruction, which in turn makes a stable outcome less and less likely. - Most other justifications for the war having evaporated (WMD) or been seriously damaged by the US itself (protection of human rights in Iraq), the administration is increasingly reliant on support for the war on the basis that it is part of an effort to protect Americans from terrorism. This was never a very convincing argument, to my mind, but a lot of Americans seem to have been willing to buy it. Incidents like this may tend to suggest to them that the war in Iraq is failing to achieve the objective which is said to justify it; if anything, it is exposing Americans to greater risks. In short, the potential downside for the administration from the Berg murder seems vastly to exceed any potential upside. So why would they fake it? ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/3 "2004-05-20T05:59:33Z")
It’s called misdirection. If you fill up the news day with your chosen stories, then you don’t have to worry about any real news being published. Imagine what might happen if it was a slow news day in Iraq and reporters actually had to go out looking for things to report on? Who knows what they might find. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/4 "2004-05-20T06:03:13Z")
**UDS** if you are right then maybe the administration put out this information that **DDG** used in the OP. By doing so they discredit the Berg murder and who would guess they were behind it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sweepkick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@sweepkick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweepkick)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/5 "2004-05-20T06:05:14Z")
One can only hope… ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/6 "2004-05-20T07:10:06Z")
> [@sweepkick](#): > > One can only hope… If they were looking to “fake” something why not just fake some nuclear weapons? It wouldn’t be that hard for our blackops people to “retrofit” our weapons to give them an Iraqi signature. Then we could place them deep inside some remote, Iraqi stockpile only to be “discovered” by Sixty Minutes in a staged event. My pont is that if they are looking to “fake” something then there are far more rhetorically powerful news items that could be faked or manipulated to their benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/7 "2004-05-20T07:18:02Z")
The fact that his body was found later makes it somewhat hard to say it is a sophisticated computer program. ---
**Author:** ![LuckySevens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LuckySevens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LuckySevens)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/8 "2004-05-20T07:56:11Z")
if only it were that easy to re direct attention if it were a fake on the part of the US government, they could have found something better. And the kids still dead. Unless its all part of conspiracy _tin foil hat_ ---
**Author:** ![Asteroide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Asteroide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asteroide)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/9 "2004-05-20T09:46:15Z")
Without wanting to get too complicated, but I don’t see why it has to be either “fake” or “not fake”, either “Zarq” or “US govt” who did it etc. I agree with all those who’ve pointed out that something smells weird about this tape - the weirdest thing to me is lack of context - no media communication from the perpetrators (that I’m aware of) before the killing, no communication after, no info about the investigation making headlines, physical evidence etc The problem here is that this opens the door to all kinds of speculation - the Baath did it to incriminate the muslim extremists, one group of extremists did it to incriminate another, coalition psyops, a combination of the previous, unknown party … So far I’d have to say - strange business, but nowhere near enough info to determine what really happened. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/10 "2004-05-20T09:58:21Z")
Is anyone on ‘the other side’ claiming, implying or suggesting it is fake? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/11 "2004-05-20T10:14:40Z")
This is GQ, people. Does anyone have any factual information on whether the video shows signs of being fake or not? All political theorising about motivations aside? Sorry to junior mod, but I’m interested in a GQ answer (as is DDG I assume) and most of you people are just getting in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/12 "2004-05-20T11:43:53Z")
Apparently, some people on Al-Jazeera said that Nick Berg was probably dead before he was decapitated. Supposedly, there should have bee a lot more blood than was seen. (I haven’t seen the video myself.) ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/13 "2004-05-20T11:55:31Z")
I was going to say something like that… but then I thought there might be some big scientifical reason as to why that would be and I’d just sound like a dumb ass 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/14 "2004-05-20T12:00:56Z")
There have been a bunch of threads on the subject here, mostly in GD. Several people have suggested he was dead before he was decaptitated, but most of them said that because they felt he didn’t move enough while the deed was being done. (This doesn’t account for the screams in the video.) Some did also ask about the blood. My opinion - and it’s not just mine - is that there’s lots of it, it’s just not always visible due to the position of his body and the camera (one doper added that the color of the floor could have obscured it as well). Whether it’s ‘enough’ blood I can’t say, but it didn’t seem like shockingly little. If these people spoke to hundreds of medical and film experts, why do they only quote one doctor and confine their stated objections to trivial things like the color of the walls, a description of a store-bought chair, and - although this IS the most confusing item - whatever that is in the corner? I don’t see any signs of editing, and while I haven’t seen an explanation for the gap between the sound and the action, it’s a consitent delay, it doesn’t come and go or change. You’d think in a real CIA job, they’d eliminate it altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/15 "2004-05-21T01:37:30Z")
Thank you, Princhester, yes, what I’m looking for more is along the lines of “are there technical reasons, glitches, inconsistencies, things that don’t look quite right in the footage, that would support the allegation that it’s a fake”. Such as, not enough blood? Or something like that. I know from past experience that it’s completely useless to appeal to logic with the Tinfoil Hat Brigade, as in, “Why would they fake it?” The THB doesn’t deal in logic. It’s enough for them that it _could have been_ faked, and for them it’s but a short jump from there to “it _was_ faked”. They’re paranoid, truly, clinically, and trying to persuade them that the Administration “wouldn’t have faked it because it doesn’t serve their long-term purpose” just goes in one ear and out the other. You have to be able to show them actual proof that it’s real, and even then, it’s iffy–viz. the Apollo moon landing “hoax” believers. You can talk to them till you’re blue in the face about the difference between moon rocks and Earth rocks, and it won’t do any good, and as soon as you get into “Why would the Soviets keep their mouths shut about its being a fake?”, you’ve lost them totally. They don’t need reasons _why_ The Powers That Be lie–they simply believe that they do. So these are the same people. ---
**Author:** ![MrFantsyPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MrFantsyPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFantsyPants)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/16 "2004-05-21T03:06:17Z")
> [@Duck Duck Goose](#): > > Thank you, Princhester, yes, what I’m looking for more is along the lines of “are there technical reasons, glitches, inconsistencies, things that don’t look quite right in the footage, that would support the allegation that it’s a fake”. Such as, not enough blood? Or something like that. I haven’t seen any good explanation why he was in a prison jumpsuit. The US army claims to have released him the day before, but they would not have released him wearing a jumpsuit. The whole point of the jumpsuit is that if you see one outside of a jail, you drag his ass back to jail. So the al Qaeda folks stole a jumpsuit from the US prison and dressed him up again? why? Some say to make a statement about the treatment of the other prisoners, but none of them have been shown being mistreated while wearing the jumpsuit. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to for a statement that is weak to begin with. But if he was never release, and the video is a fake, how stupid do those fakers have to be. Something smells rotten, I just can’t figure out what’s really going on. Oh, and there’s the whole fake leg argument. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Gutgore\_Blooddrink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Captain\_Gutgore\_Blooddrink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Gutgore_Blooddrink)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/17 "2004-05-21T03:23:59Z")
Well, there are one or two of the things that haven’t been adressed in this thread yet. I’ll bring thim up, but I don’t have the answer. The little nitpick one is supposedly there is a gold ring flashing on one hand, which is forbidden in certain religions. I don’t see that even if it was, that that would make a big deal. The second, and the one I’ve not been able to find more than one or two references about, is that one of the guys speaks russian towards the end, and that the executioners dialect was wrong? As far as I can tell, so far the things that really could use a bit of explaining (the tape/speech/time inconsistancies) and the dialect thing are being overshadowed by what are probably hundreds of pieces of odd evidence (chair, jumpsuit, white running shoes or whatever you’ve heard) While the tape may have more to it than it seems, Mr. Berg is still dead and headless, so the probability of it being entirely fake are pretty slim. Regards, MeatBeast ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/18 "2004-05-21T04:07:40Z")
[quoteSo the al Qaeda folks stole a jumpsuit from the US prison and dressed him up again? why?[/quote] Is it that hard to find an orange jumpsuit? ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/19 "2004-05-21T04:13:04Z")
This execution is nothing new, it just happened to make it into the news at an opportune time. Read [this column about arab terrorist beheadings](http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004516.asp) etc. A snippet: The use of videos of attacks and murders of captives is considered a recruiting tool and good propaganda. The videos are rarely shown on English language web sites, as they are intended for the hard core terrorist audience. Al Qaeda knows that such videos will turn off many in the West, but has found that it does wonders for al Qaeda recruiting and contributions. Al Qaeda has been unable to win any meaningful victories, so they invent success by declaring the slaughter of people via suicide bombings, or beheadings, to be a victory over the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Asteroide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Asteroide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asteroide)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123/20 "2004-05-21T09:52:45Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > This execution is nothing new, it just happened to make it into the news at an opportune time. Read [this column about arab terrorist beheadings](http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004516.asp) etc. Good point, but - I still can’t see why so many dopers feel there’s any reason to take this video at face value. Whoever put it together, it’s obviously a propaganda piece, and not simply a document of fact. Somebody (s) chose how to spin this, what to put on the sound track, to add the titles, to release it via the net rather than to TV, who to attribute it to, when to release it etc. I believe this video should be met with the normal skepticism you would show any media content, and then some ! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-nick-berg-decapitation-video-a-fake/246123.md?page=2)