# Was the Stuxnet malware designed to destroy Iran's Bushehr nuclear power plant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976 "2010-09-25T05:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/1 "2010-09-25T05:19:25Z")
[Stuxnet malware is ‘weapon’ out to destroy … Iran’s Bushehr nuclear plant?](http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/327178) > [@](#): > > Cyber security experts say they have identified the world’s first known cyber super weapon designed specifically to destroy a real-world target – a factory, a refinery, or just maybe a nuclear power plant. > > The cyber worm, called Stuxnet, has been the object of intense study since its detection in June. As more has become known about it, alarm about its capabilities and purpose have grown. Some top cyber security experts now say Stuxnet’s arrival heralds something blindingly new: a cyber weapon created to cross from the digital realm to the physical world – to destroy something. > [@](#): > > “Stuxnet is a 100-percent-directed cyber attack aimed at destroying an industrial process in the physical world,” says Langner, who last week became the first to publicly detail Stuxnet’s destructive purpose and its authors’ malicious intent. “This is not about espionage, as some have said. This is a 100 percent sabotage attack.” > [@](#): > > A geographical distribution of computers hit by Stuxnet, which Microsoft produced in July, found Iran to be the apparent epicenter of the Stuxnet infections. That suggests that any enemy of Iran with advanced cyber war capability might be involved, Langner says. The US is acknowledged to have that ability, and Israel is also reported to have a formidable offensive cyber-war-fighting capability. > > Could Stuxnet’s target be Iran’s Bushehr nuclear power plant, a facility much of the world condemns as a nuclear weapons threat? > > Langner is quick to note that his views on Stuxnet’s target is speculation based on suggestive threads he has seen in the media. Still, he suspects that the Bushehr plant may already have been wrecked by Stuxnet. Bushehr’s expected startup in late August has been delayed, he notes, for unknown reasons. (One Iranian official blamed the delay on hot weather.) I find this fascinating, and wonder if this is just the first shot in a cyber war that will take down significant parts of the computerized infrastructure on both sides of the political divide. So is it the US, or Israel, or a Blofeldian supervillan? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/2 "2010-09-25T06:22:41Z")
It seems possible. From what I’ve read, there’s no doubt that it was targeting Iran and this thing definitely had a very specific target in mind. It had four 0-day exploits, stolen certificates, targeted a specific type of computer running specific software that it knew was still vulnerable to a bug that was patched in 2008. From what I understand, they would have tested it on the SCADA systems it was designed to attack and would have to have had a lot of inside information about the target. To me, it sounds like it took a team to write it, one or more people on the inside for information and possibly to deliver it, and a decent amount of money. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/3 "2010-09-25T11:10:53Z")
From what I’ve read, the way it was written implies that there was a few groups working on independent subsystems of the virus (various different languages used, various coding styles). Certainly, whoever wrote it had an intimate knowledge of the internals of Windows and the Siemens control hardware that it is targeting. This latest attack also matches Israel’s [known capabilities](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BE30920091215). (Not to say it is Israel, that is, but no doubt the Israelis will only be too keen for everybody to think they have the capability of doing something like this.) ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/4 "2010-09-25T12:52:29Z")
new article today: Iran has admitted that stuxnet has damaged their nuclear facilities. [http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/25/world/middleeast/AP-ML-Iran-Cyber-Attacks.html?\_r=1&hp](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/25/world/middleeast/AP-ML-Iran-Cyber-Attacks.html?_r=1&hp) ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/5 "2010-09-25T13:13:41Z")
My guess would be that Iran simply didn’t have effective controls in place to protect this unanticipated threat. Building an attack mechanism for a single target is inefficient (and hackers/crackers are often lazy in that respect, while busting their asses in other regards). If Iran is saying that they had some measure of compromise because of stux, I would guess that they just fell victim to inadequate system hardening (or the dreaded ‘whoopsie’). ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/6 "2010-09-25T13:34:22Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > Building an attack mechanism for a single target is inefficient (and hackers/crackers are often lazy in that respect, while busting their asses in other regards). You obviously didn’t read the original article quoted above. Stuxnet has been written for a specific target, it carefully checks for fingerprints of a specific hardware system and only delivers its payload on that system. It also looks like it spread from a USB key that was planted inside a specific facility using an inside agent. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/7 "2010-09-25T13:51:42Z")
Fuckin’ awesome. It’s also important in a historical sense: it means that we have now officially entered William Gibson’s version of the future. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/8 "2010-09-25T14:04:46Z")
[Wired.com](http://Wired.com) had a great editorial on it. Their theory is/was presented as targeting their centrifuges, not the nuclear facility. [http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/stuxnet/](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/stuxnet/) I don’t know the credibility, or whether it’s an importuner distinction to any of you, but to me there’s a difference between writing a code to target a military facility (enriching uranium is, IMO, an inherently militaristic activaty – like making tanks) and writing a code to target a civilian power plant. It seems to me that the prime suspects in this code are 1) The American DARPA program, 2) Israel, 3) Russia, 4) China, 5) India, 6) Pakistan – to my mind in that order. Possibly some combination of them, the USA and Israel have close enough ties that imagining they worked together on what is probably the single coolest weapon ever invented isn’t beyond the realm of possibility to me. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/9 "2010-09-25T14:54:46Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > It seems to me that the prime suspects in this code are 1) The American DARPA program, 2) Israel, 3) Russia, 4) China, 5) India, 6) Pakistan – to my mind in that order. Possibly some combination of them, the USA and Israel have close enough ties that imagining they worked together on what is probably the single coolest weapon ever invented isn’t beyond the realm of possibility to me. The U.S. government has had a long-standing problem of not being able to get the best computer minds to work for them, for a huge host of reasons. No chance of a billion-dollar payback, absence of utterly cool working conditions, not being able to talk to others about the work. But also, a lack of really interesting problems. Whether the U.S. did this one or not, there’s got to be talk among the elite coders about the opportunity to do spectacular things that would otherwise be illegal while being given all the resources in the world. That’s a game-changer in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/10 "2010-09-25T14:55:19Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > 1. Russia, 4) China, 5) India, 6) Pakistan . I believe that all of the above countries sell arms to Iran. What would be their motivation to attack Iran’s nuclear facility? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/11 "2010-09-25T15:09:08Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > > [@Todderbob](#): > > > > 1. Russia, 4) China, 5) India, 6) Pakistan . > > I believe that all of the above countries sell arms to Iran. What would be their motivation to attack Iran’s nuclear facility? For the last 65 years, the world has made a distinction between arms and nuclear weapons. Russia has been supporting Iran’s nuclear program, so they would presumably have other ways to block it if they were worried about weaponry. But the others have lots of incentive. If Iran sets off even one bomb then it won’t be a customer for anything for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/12 "2010-09-25T15:30:12Z")
> [@Oh sweet, sweet new Pratchett](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sweet-sweet-new-pratchett/63752/24): > > The U.S. government has had a long-standing problem of not being able to get the best computer minds to work for them, for a huge host of reasons. No chance of a billion-dollar payback, absence of utterly cool working conditions, not being able to talk to others about the work. But also, a lack of really interesting problems. Israel avoids this problem by having a general draft - most of the best coders in the country between the ages of 18 and 21 work for the military. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/13 "2010-09-25T15:51:00Z")
Seems kinda dangerous. According to the Wired artice, its infected 100,000 computers and that the particular controller is used in alot of critical industrial applications. If a power plant in Italy blows up, theres gonna be a lot of geopolitical awkwardness. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/14 "2010-09-25T16:55:02Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The U.S. government has had a long-standing problem of not being able to get the best computer minds to work for them, for a huge host of reasons. No chance of a billion-dollar payback, absence of utterly cool working conditions, not being able to talk to others about the work. But also, a lack of really interesting problems. It hadn’t occurred to me that the US government had those kinds of problems. But even if they did, getting recruited to do something like this has to be a huge stroke on someones ego/challenge of their skills/whatever motivation needed to overcome that, don’t you think? > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Whether the U.S. did this one or not, there’s got to be talk among the elite coders about the opportunity to do spectacular things that would otherwise be illegal while being given all the resources in the world. That’s a game-changer in many ways. I smell a slew of James Bond-esque spy thrillers centered around coding, like… hey, wasn’t there a Harrison Ford movie like this already? > [@coremelt](#): > > > [@Todderbob](#): > > > > 1. Russia, 4) China, 5) India, 6) Pakistan . > > I believe that all of the above countries sell arms to Iran. What would be their motivation to attack Iran’s nuclear facility? They all have nukes, Iran does not. Anyone else with nukes makes their nukes less important, and removes one bargaining chip in future relations with that country. There’s a huge differences between “Nukes” and “Arms.” Selling arms isn’t a big deal, at worst, someone could eventually use them against you – but they’re probably dependent on you for maintaining their arms too, so it’s unlikely. And if they do, you already have nukes. There are a lot of general possibilities, and nothing concrete, but all reasonable assertions as to potential motive. And that rules out any purely xenophobic tendencies, or genuine ambitions for world conquest/hegemony which, while unlikely, are perfectly possible from any number of nations clandestine organizations. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > [@coremelt](#): > > > > I believe that all of the above countries sell arms to Iran. What would be their motivation to attack Iran’s nuclear facility? > > For the last 65 years, the world has made a distinction between arms and nuclear weapons. > > Russia has been supporting Iran’s nuclear program, so they would presumably have other ways to block it if they were worried about weaponry. But the others have lots of incentive. If Iran sets off even one bomb then it won’t be a customer for anything for a long time. You’re correct, Russia has/had every chance to hinder their program, and hasn’t. While still a possible suspect, it’s unlikely they’d have done it this way. > [@Oh sweet, sweet new Pratchett](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sweet-sweet-new-pratchett/63752/24): > > > [@Oh sweet, sweet new Pratchett](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-sweet-sweet-new-pratchett/63752/24): > > > > The U.S. government has had a long-standing problem of not being able to get the best computer minds to work for them, for a huge host of reasons. No chance of a billion-dollar payback, absence of utterly cool working conditions, not being able to talk to others about the work. But also, a lack of really interesting problems. > > Israel avoids this problem by having a general draft - most of the best coders in the country between the ages of 18 and 21 work for the military. Hadn’t even occurred to me, Israel may be more likely than the States then. I very much doubt they’ll do anything to dispel the image they did it. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/15 "2010-09-25T16:57:49Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Seems kinda dangerous. According to the Wired artice, its infected 100,000 computers and that the particular controller is used in alot of critical industrial applications. If a power plant in Italy blows up, theres gonna be a lot of geopolitical awkwardness. It exploited a patched vulnerability in a system that, if run properly, never would’ve mattered anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/16 "2010-09-25T17:05:26Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > > [@Simplicio](#): > > > > Seems kinda dangerous. According to the Wired artice, its infected 100,000 computers and that the particular controller is used in alot of critical industrial applications. If a power plant in Italy blows up, theres gonna be a lot of geopolitical awkwardness. > > It exploited a patched vulnerability in a system that, if run properly, never would’ve mattered anyway. OK, but if Iran can run their system incorrectly at a facility where they are presumably pretty aware of the possibility of sabatoge, it certainly seems possible that some neglected system in another country could have the same vulnerability. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/17 "2010-09-25T17:50:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s also important in a historical sense: it means that we have now officially entered William Gibson’s version of the future. oooh! I want a cobra, a dragon, and a chick with a neural implant and big breasts! ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/18 "2010-09-25T18:23:17Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > OK, but if Iran can run their system incorrectly at a facility where they are presumably pretty aware of the possibility of sabatoge, it certainly seems possible that some neglected system in another country could have the same vulnerability. It checks that it is on the correct system before doing the bad stuff and is supposedly pretty specific about what it looks for. While the writers obviously know enough to attack other places if they wanted, so far it seems to benign to other sites it infects. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/19 "2010-09-25T19:13:20Z")
This reminds me of the Macintosh “Scores” virus, which targeted applications used by EDS (Ross Perot’s company) back in the late [80’s.](http://books.google.com/books?id=pj0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=macintosh+virus+eds&source=bl&ots=196cTiBfym&sig=p6IgILI45X0A_n023ayWnHsJmPQ&hl=en&ei=ikieTJzQHYuosAPckJzWAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA) ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976/20 "2010-09-25T20:45:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The U.S. government has had a long-standing problem of not being able to get the best computer minds to work for them, for a huge host of reasons. No chance of a billion-dollar payback, absence of utterly cool working conditions, not being able to talk to others about the work. But also, a lack of really interesting problems. Oh I don’t know about that, my guess is that the term you might be looking for is plea bargain. While I doubt script kiddies would be drafted, er, reformed. I would wonder how many of those elite slicers have a little secret. Declan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-stuxnet-malware-designed-to-destroy-irans-bushehr-nuclear-power-plant/554976.md?page=2)