Was the U.S. Civil War all about slavery?

I am not going to try to assign percentage points to reasons, but it is clear that the South at the time of secession thought that the primary issue was slavery. When the various states voted to secede, they named slavery as the reason. When the CSA wrote its own Constitution, it actually suppressed many of the states’ rights that were embodied in the U.S. Constitution particularly on the issues of slavery, prohibiting any state from making any law that abridged slaveholders’ rights.
There was never actually any threat to States Rights: the only proposals brought to Congress limited the expansion of slavery in future territories and not one serious effort was made to abridge the rights of any state. (Well, except for the insistence by the South that the rights of Northern states to exempt themselves from the Fugitive Slave Acts of 1793 and 1850 was not valid. I think it would be novel, and more honest, if the “States Rights” issue was more correctly portrayed as an effort by the South to suppress such rights. :stuck_out_tongue: )

The issue of tariffs and every other regional North/South conflict was a direct result of the need in the South to attack tariffs and other issues on the grounds that they interfered with the Southern slave-based economy.

With all the various sectional/regional disputes that preceded the Civil War, (Georgia’s taking of Indian lands, the Hartford Convention to propose that New England withdraw from the union over the matter of the War of 1812, etc.), only slavery actually brought about an armed conflict.

However, your use of “bullshit,” and “muddying the waters in [is] insulting and disingenuous” without expressly identiying whose claims your were challenging while quoting xtsime was more than a bit provocative.

You are not under any obligation to retire from the thread, but you might want to consider your tone when posting in this forum.

To the extent that the war was about states’ rights, the only relevant right was the right to have slaves. To the extent that it was about control of the country, it was whether the country would be controlled by slave states or free states. You can come up with all sorts of reasons, but in the end, they all come back to slavery.

Thank you

No doubt slavery was the #1 reason, and was behind most of the rest of the reasons. For example the list:
1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South. Certainly, but the difference was caused BY slavery.

2. States versus federal rights. Other than the right of a State to allow slavery, most other “States versus federal” rights were minor or dropped by the South. Certainly their Constitution on the whole gave States almost no extra rights overall- except those related to slavery.
wiki “The Southern leaders met in Montgomery, Alabama, to write their constitution. Much of the Confederate States Constitution replicated the United States Constitution verbatim, but it contained several explicit protections of the institution of slavery, though it maintained the existing ban on international slave-trading. In certain areas, the Confederate Constitution gave greater powers to the states (or curtailed the powers of the central government more) than the U.S. Constitution of the time did, but in other areas, the states actually lost rights they had under the U.S. Constitution. Although the Confederate Constitution, like the U.S. Constitution, contained a commerce clause, the Confederate version prohibited the central government from using revenues collected in one state for funding internal improvements in another state. The Confederate Constitution’s equivalent to the U.S. Constitution’s general welfare clause prohibited protective tariffs (but allowed tariffs for providing domestic revenue), and spoke of “carry[ing] on the Government of the Confederate States” rather than providing for the “general welfare”. State legislatures had the power to impeach officials of the Confederate government in some cases. On the other hand, the Confederate Constitution contained a Necessary and Proper Clause and a Supremacy Clause that essentially duplicated the respective clauses of the U.S. Constitution. The Confederate Constitution also incorporated each of the twelve amendments to the U.S. Constitution that had been ratified up to that point.

So, although there were other causes, slavery was the big one. Maybe not 99%, but certainly more than all others added together.

Four formal state “declarations of independence” include:
Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

Georgia’s secesssion declaration:

Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union:

Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union:

From the “Cornerstone” speech delivered by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens in Savannah, March 21, 1861

Tom, I hope that you will continue to post the Cornerstone Speech any time there is any doubt on the subject. It bears rereading.

Do you know where in Savannah this particular speech was given?

All this talk about the “balance of power” between “the North” and “the South” overlooks that without slavery, there would not be a “North” and a “South”. As geographical expressions, sure–the more northerly and the more southerly states–but the thing that divided the states into distinct and hostile blocs was the existence of slavery in some states but not others. The South did not have a separate language–Americans didn’t fight the bloodiest war in our history over the difference between “y’all” and “yinz”. Nor was there some deep-seated religious dispute; both the free states and the slave states were, by the mid-19th Century, pretty devout, and mostly Protestant; with major denominations shared in both the northern and southern sections of the country (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian) dividing over slavery (not over the Filioque clause or the fine details of justification or any other theological arcana) in the run-up to the war or after secession. The thing that united the states from Virginia to Texas, while distinguishing that group of states from both the old northeastern states like Massachusetts or the new midwestern states like Iowa, was the continued existence of slavery in the states in the southern half of the country.

Nor were the free states some monolithic land of factories; even now much of the Midwest is an agricultural region, and that was even more so in 1860 (for example, Detroit had obviously not yet emerged as a world center of automobile production). The non-slave areas of the United States included a variegated economy of growing numbers of factories alongside many farms. The slave states, on the other hand (especially the Deep South states, which not coincidentally were the first states to secede) was dominated by a form of “agrarian economy” characterized not by Jeffersonian yeoman farmers growing food to feed their own families, but by large capitalistic plantations producing commodity goods for international trade. Of course there were many small farmers in the slave states (and butchers, bakers, and candlestick-makers), but the central engine of the economy of the slave states were the plantations–in 1860, cotton easily accounted for the majority of all U.S. foreign exports. And that Southern plantation economy relied entirely on slavery.

The Southern economy was massively dependent on plantations employing slave labor, in the way that some places are dependent on oil: Even though not everyone owns an oil well, if the price of oil drops, the East Texas Cadillac dealers or sellers of cowboy hats suffer along with the oilmen. If the basis for the plantation economy–the system of slave labor–were disrupted, there would be severe economic hardship throughout Southern society, not just among wealthy planters with lots of slaves. (Again not coincidentally, areas of the south like East Tennessee or the northwestern areas of Virginia, which were not as heavily involved in the plantation economy, were hotbeds of Unionism, with northwestern Virginia seceding from the secession to become Unionist West Virginia.) On top of (a Marxian would no doubt say as a result of) these economic factors you had a whole social and ideological system of white supremacy, and (especially in places where a large percentage or even the majority of the population were slaves, which included the entire states of South Carolina and Mississippi), there were deep seated fears of slave rebellion and the potential for social and political chaos as a result.

By contrast, the non-slave-holding states were increasingly not merely uninvested in and uninterested in slavery, but actively hostile to it. One need not be a believer in full racial equality in order to sympathize with people systemically deprived of all social and political rights, and one need not have felt even a condescending sympathy for the blacks in order to oppose slavery. Slavery was increasingly seen as being blatantly incompatible with the ideals on which the Republic was founded; and there were fears of the “Slave Power” as an alien, aristocratic, un-American threat to the ideals of free labor and republican self-government. By and large the citizens of the free states weren’t prepared in 1860 to wage a crusade to abolish slavery in South Carolina, but they were hostile enough to slavery to want to see it “contained”, like a plague (or like Communism a century later). And the free staters were hostile enough to slavery to elect an openly anti-slavery man (though not a “radical” immediate abolitionist) to the presidency.

You can say the free states and the slave states should have compromised, but in fact the first half of the 19th Century was marked by repeated attempts at just that. In early 19th Century American politics, “compromise” was bandied about as a fine and noble word, and very often over exactly the issue of slavery, from the Missouri Compromise to the Compromise of 1850. It may be that the issue of slavery simply isn’t very compromisable–people are either slave or not; it is (if you’ll forgive the phrase) a black and white issue. And of course it was the slave states which forced the issue far more than radical free state abolitionists, forcing the end of the Compromise of 1850, touching off “Bleeding” Kansas, the precursor civil war to the Civil War, and causing even many moderate citizens of the free states to fear an aggressive, expansionist “Slave Power” that had to be stopped by putting the new anti-slavery Republican Party in power. That in turn led to the secession of eleven of the fifteen slave states (with two others being divided between Confederates and Unionists–the Confederacy formally claimed both Kentucky and Missouri–and serious pro-Confederate sympathies in Maryland), and the outbreak of civil war.

Without slavery there might at some point in American history have been a civil war, but it was slavery which brought about the Civil War. There surely would have been tensions and disputes over central versus local authority, as there almost inevitably will be in any federal system. Personally, I think open and bloody warfare would have been much less likely without an issue as morally stark as slavery versus freedom.

While I think it’s pretty obvious that slavery was the precipitating cause of the war, here I think you are carrying your argument too far. Even setting slavery aside, there are cultural differences between the northern and southern states which stretch back to the days of the Jamestown and Plymouth colonies. Nothing worth starting a war over, but to deny that there is a distinctive “Southern” culture is to deny something that seems readily apparent.

Of course there are regional differences. Pennsylvania is not the same place as Mississippi. But Virginia is not the same place as Arkansas; South Carolina is different from Texas; Louisiana is different from anyplace else. Heck, Savannah is a different place from Atlanta. And Ohio is distinct from New Jersey, while New England is different from Iowa, and within New England, Connecticut is different from Maine.

Outside of the former Confederacy, no one has a belief in a monolithic cultural area known as “the North”. Iowans do not greet Down Easters from Maine as “Ah, a fellow Northerner!” So, yes, there are regional variations, but the sense of being “the South” (as opposed to being Virginians and Cajuns and so on) is born out of the experience of being the region that kept slavery after the rest of the country moved to end it, and then (perhaps even more so) of being the region of the United States that fought a war, and lost, and was invaded and conquered.

Blaming Lincoln and the Republicans for the American Civil War is the nuttiest thing I’ve ever heard in all of my life. You do admit and know it wasn’t Lincoln who was going to keep slavery out of the Western Territories, it was the Republicans (and a few others who were not stuck in the mud on the issue of slavery) who won the election, were going to help shift the balance of power. The Republicans could have ran Donald Duck (if existed at the time) for President and if the Duckman had won, the same situation was inevitable.

If the Southern Democrats had won the election, war would have been put off, but it was coming because South Carolina and a few other states were determined to keep an agrarian economy going—an economy that demanded slavery as a means of making a profit. Even with the coming Industrial Revolution being a given, if a war were averted, I believe the evidence shows South Carolina and others would have fallen behind the North in influence and power as things progressed. This is a classic example of what feeds wars: Power struggles.

The South was fighting against the tides change and progress. The crazy Jeffersonian myth of an Agrarian Utopian society was getting ready to be squashed by the coming Industrial Revolution. The South was going to change and the change would effect the power elite and they were fighting to keep power. btw: The way of life crap, is another myth of what motivated the South to CHOOSE war.

The differences that fueled war fever separated the North and the South since the days of inception as a nation. There the settling of differences was always a deal where the inevitable was put off until later.

The nonsense that the American Civil War was not about slavery is just that, nonsense. The power struggle was over a slave based economy that kept the Southern elite in power in the South. Their way of life was threatened. A way of life that had crap to do with culture and everything that had to do with money, influence and power.

Well, you are just wrong about that. There are connections which bind Southerners and which transcend slavery and the Civil War. They manifest themselves in linguistics, food (the most obvious marker being the so-called Grits Belt stretching from Virginia to Texas, in which most grits are sold and which roughly roughly encompasses the region), religion, and in a thousand more subtle ways.

How many historians will seriously contend that, if there had been no slavery, there would have been a war?

None that I know of. Do you know any? But I don’t think that many historians would agree that the war was entirely (or 99%, sort of like Ivory Snow) about slavery, and there were no other issues involved…which was my point. The war was about states right, when boiled down. Slavery was THE central issue that concerned those states rights, and even the secondary issues in most cases were impacted in one way or the other with the slavery question.

-XT

Pretty much. But let’s not fool ourselves into saying that the North went to war in order to free the slaves. The South seceded in order to preserve the institution of slavery, and the North went to war to prevent the South from seceding. So, slavery was the cause of the war, but freeing the slaves wasn’t the goal of the North, at least not in the beginning. Stop the spread of slavery? Yes. Eliminate slavery in the South? Not really.

The Emancipation Proclamation only freed the slaves in the South. Slaves in border states in the Union weren’t freed until after the war, with the passage of the 13th amendment. I’ve seen it said that Lincoln tried to make the War seem like it was about freeing the slaves several years into it in order, at least in part, to get the Europeans on the side of the Union.

Early in his presidency I seem to remember a speech or comment by Lincoln saying something to the effect that if continuing slavery would keep the Union together he’d be fine with that. Even after the war began he didn’t move immediately to declare slavery abolished (because of those border states you mentioned, among other things), and it was (from memory) something like '63 before he really committed to that.

I think you boiled things down pretty well here…the South went to war over slavery and individual sovereignty (which centrally revolved around continuing slavery without regard to what other states or the federal government’s position on the issue), and the North went to war to prevent states from seceding from the Union.

-XT

Maryland and Delaware are part of the South?

I’m not sure about Delaware (though I suspect it’s the same), but Maryland was a border state, with parts of the state being slave and sympathizing with the South, while parts leaned towards the North. It was one of those states that could have gone either way.

-XT

Visiting Maryland as a child and coming from Boston, I was always called a ‘Yankee’

It seems many a resident of Maryland is and was confused about Maryland’s status.

True, that was not the foremost goal during the initial period. A good sized minority in the North was excited about the opportunity to finally get rid of slavery, however.