# Was the United States government right at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 21, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355 "2011-10-21T13:39:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/61 "2011-10-24T17:47:57Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It’s battlefield applications are really limited; it’s range seems to be only within eyesight So anywhere up to 10 kilometres, further against aircraft? > [@](#): > > even the good guys have to keep their eyes closed while it’s open If they just have to avoid looking at it, all you need to do is build a box around it with an open front. Presto! People in front of your death ray get melted, people behind are fine. > [@](#): > > thwarting the weapon is as simple as closing your eyes (how long do you think it’ll take everyone to figure out why American soldiers aren’t dying) How will they observe this fact? And even if they do, fighting against an enemy that is effectively blind is still a massive advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/62 "2011-10-24T18:57:53Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > That is so fucking awesome, Facebooked! 🙂 I love that story - the follow-up is just as wierd: as a peace-offering, the Philistines make golden statuettes of their hemorrhoids (and mice), one golden hemorrhoid per philistine city, one golden mouse per lord, and return these, with the Ark. > [@](#): > > Then said they, “What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him?” They answered, "Five golden hemorrhoids and five golden mice, according to the number of the lords of the Philistines; for one plague was on you all and on your lords. > > Therefore ye shall make images of your hemorrhoids and images of your mice that mar the land, and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel. Perhaps he will lighten his hand from you and from your gods and from your land. > > … > > And these are the golden hemorrhoids which the Philistines returned for a trespass offering unto the LORD: for Ashdod one, for Gaza one, for Ashkelon one, for Gath one, for Ekron one; It doesn’t say what happened to the golden hemorrhoids. Gives me an idea for the next Indy movie: “Raiders of the Lost Hemorrhoids”. Oh well, can’t be worse than that Crystal Skull thing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/63 "2011-10-24T19:15:33Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > A nuclear waste storage dump would be a dandy locale. The precise moment this thread can veer off deeply into G.D. territory. IMHO, the power of the Ark, an Ark, is without. Not within. It’s not a bomb or wickedly powerful device. Think about the construct of the last sequence with Indy, Marion, the Nazis and so on on the mountain. A wisp flies out and becomes- to the eye of the beholder- first beautiful then deadly. For those who believe in this kind of God, the power is without not within something as limiting as a stone box carried on the shoulder. For those who don’t believe, or can see the yarn as just a yarn, it was an “Amplifier for talking to God”. A nuclear waste dump isn’t necessary. Just keeping it quietly tucked away was the only good idea… and that’s what Spielberg did. Also, of course, it was a lovely nod to [Citizen Kane’s final shot](http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/assets_c/2010/12/citizen_kane-warehouse-28814.html). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/64 "2011-10-24T19:22:26Z")
Calm down, guys. King James [screwed many things up.](http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/E/EMERODS/) “In the Hebrew text of this passage the Qere substitutes for it the word techorim, a term which occurs in the next chapter in the description of the golden models of these swellings that were made as votive offerings (1 Sam 6:11-17). The swellings were symptoms of a plague, and the history is precisely that of the outbreak of an epidemic of bubonic plague. The older writers supposed by comparison of the account in 1 Sam with Ps 78:66 that they were hemorrhoids (or piles), and the older English term in the King James Version is a 16th-century form of that Greek word, which occurs in several medical treatises of the 16th and 17th centuries. There is, however, no evidence that this identification is correct. In the light of the modern research which has proved that the rat-flea (Pulex cheopis) is the most active agent in conveying the virus of plague to the human subject, it is worthy of note that the plague of tumors was accompanied by an invasion of mice (`akhbor) or rats. The rat is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, although it was as common in Canaan and Israelite times as it is today, a fact demonstrated by the frequency with which their bones occur in all strata of the old Palestinian cities, so it is probable that the term used was a generic one for both rodents.” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/65 "2011-10-24T19:39:18Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/66 "2011-10-24T20:18:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Calm down, guys. King James [screwed many things up.](http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/E/EMERODS/) > > “In the Hebrew text of this passage the Qere substitutes for it the word techorim, a term which occurs in the next chapter in the description of the golden models of these swellings that were made as votive offerings (1 Sam 6:11-17). The swellings were symptoms of a plague, and the history is precisely that of the outbreak of an epidemic of bubonic plague. The older writers supposed by comparison of the account in 1 Sam with Ps 78:66 that they were hemorrhoids (or piles), and the older English term in the King James Version is a 16th-century form of that Greek word, which occurs in several medical treatises of the 16th and 17th centuries. There is, however, no evidence that this identification is correct. In the light of the modern research which has proved that the rat-flea (Pulex cheopis) is the most active agent in conveying the virus of plague to the human subject, it is worthy of note that the plague of tumors was accompanied by an invasion of mice (`akhbor) or rats. The rat is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, although it was as common in Canaan and Israelite times as it is today, a fact demonstrated by the frequency with which their bones occur in all strata of the old Palestinian cities, so it is probable that the term used was a generic one for both rodents.” Meh. It is certainly possible, but this reading makes the Biblical sound more like a history-book concerning an actual event (for which we have little evidence). What this commentator is missing, perhaps because he or she is looking at this as if it were an actual historical event rather than mythology, is the essential _perjorative_ intent of the passage. The whole point of the story is that the Philistines - enemies of the writers of the Bible - were forced to make models of their swellings and of mice, each of which was in fact “named” for a Philistine city (for the swellings) or lord (mice). The point is that the Philistines were, according to the myth, overrun with death, filth (“mice”) and disease (“tumors” or “hemorrhoids”). We today know that rats in fact help breed deadly disease such as plague, so it is of course tempting to equate these and assume the Philistines were striken with Plague and that the “tumors” in question were really Plague bulboes. This may “work” if the Bible were recounting (perhaps mythologized) history … a dubious assumption in this context. But the ancient Israelites had in mind comparing the _Philistines_, at least symbolically, to filth and disease, by having god force them to make models of these things. In short, they were forced (by God) to make models mocking and humiliating them. For that purpose, a golden hemorrhoid “works” as well as any tumor or bulboe- it is, in effect, symbolically comparing philistine cities to hemorrhoids, and their nobles to mice. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/67 "2011-10-24T20:37:56Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In short, they were forced (by God) to make models mocking and humiliating them. For that purpose, a golden hemorrhoid “works” as well as any tumor or bulboe- it is, in effect, symbolically comparing philistine cities to hemorrhoids, and their nobles to mice. Meh. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/68 "2011-10-24T20:41:16Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > i think it was the wrong thing. i mean, yeah the thing is dangerous but so are nuclear weapons. would you say that the ark is more devastating than the cumulative gigatons of nuclear warheads out there? The Commander in Chief can control his nukes. He can’t control of God. If the stories about what happened to the Nazi’s on that Greek island are believed, then they are truly eff’in with something beyond their current understanding or control. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/69 "2011-10-24T23:48:42Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > MHO is that it was a bureaucratic non-decision, but not a snafu. We don’t know what to do with it, it’s dangerous, let’s file it away until we figure out a plan. Which will probably be never, but at least it’s safe. > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Imagine George W. Bush with access to the Ark. > Or Nixon. > Or LBJ. > > No. Lock it up, & leave it to be forgotten. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It’s divine military force, but not given unconditionally. Both the nation as a whole and the king in particular need to be right with God for its power to be effective. I think you come to a neat answer if you combine these thoughts. Imagine you are, say, Nixon. You know you’ve done and plan to do some pretty dark things. Would you actually want your country to have a weapon that is semi-autonomous and attacks sinners? Only the insanely self righteous would fail to realise the weapon may turn on them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/70 "2011-10-26T03:17:01Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > I always assumed that the Ark of the Covenant was a sort of magic talisman – possession of it guaranteed that the Israelites would dominate all of Cannan … until they lost it. The US only won WWII because we had it under lock and key. > > One nun who taught me in high school thought it was highlighting the same exact idea. One priest who also taught me also thought it was saying the same thing – but that’s what he hated about the movie. He believed the biblical story of Israelite conquests (and subsequent loss of that ability) was having, then losing God’s favor, not the use of the Ark as a magic device. > > Still, I was always sure that was Spielberg’s point – the divine right of conquest passes from ancient Israel to the United States via possession of the Ark. > > Yeah, I know, the Israelites paraded the Ark before their armies. But that’s how they lost it. I think your priest was right about the Ark, but wrong about the movie - and for the same reason that the schemes put forward here for using the Ark safely wouldn’t work. The Ark isn’t a mechanical device, where you manipulate it in fashion X, and reliably receive result Y. Rather, the Ark is a vehicle for the will of God. Trying to “game” it to get a result you want (by having blind people open it for you, or kicking it out of an airplane over Berlin, or what have you) isn’t going to work, unless God decides he’s okay with you using the Ark. Biblically speaking, God is very, very particular about who is and is not allowed to use the Ark. And the “is not” group is pretty much “everyone on the planet who’s not a Jewish priest.” Jewish priests being in pretty short supply in 20th century, the US government trying to trick the Ark into killing its enemies for us is probably going to land us in a world of hurting, even if we operate from the assumption that God favors the Allies more than the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/71 "2011-10-26T21:10:29Z")
To be clear, I’m one of the few who said it shouldn’t have been locked up, but I think it should only have been studied. Any attempt to _use_ it would be hubris of the highest order, and would suffer the same fate as all hubris. Maybe I’m too optimistic. Maybe it’s just not consistent with human nature for the thing to be known, without everyone trying to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/72 "2011-10-26T21:23:26Z")
How could you study the Ark without opening it? Sure, you could X-Ray it or run some other tests like that, but eventually you’d exhaust all those options as well. Plus, who’s to say you’ll get the same or correct results with the tests? The Ark is a transmitter to God, could run carbon dating on it and the results would say that it’s an apple. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/73 "2011-10-26T23:31:09Z")
If you can’t figure out a way to safely open it, to the satisfaction of the people who’d be doing the opening, then you don’t open it. And “Don’t use it” is not the same thing as “don’t open it”. > [@](#): > > Plus, who’s to say you’ll get the same or correct results with the tests? The Ark is a transmitter to God, could run carbon dating on it and the results would say that it’s an apple. And if you _did_ get different or inconsistent results on all the tests, wouldn’t _that_ be a worthwhile thing to know? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/74 "2011-10-27T12:05:15Z")
The inside of the Ark is like the surface of the Obelisk in “2001”. It is beyond what we can comprehend. Or, as God said, " I am that which I am." ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/75 "2011-10-27T15:57:53Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > Honestly I don’t really think that the government had anything to do with the Ark being put into the warehouse. I think that the Ark was always supposed to be lost and not used. Remember that God sent a sand storm and that’s what lost the Ark in the first place. > > To me, at least in movie cannon, the government may have wanted to research the Ark, but God had other plans. Since God can’t exactly come down to earth very easily God did the next best thing and put it in a huge government warehouse and got it ‘lost’ again. I mean really, what better place then a government warehouse can you put something and never find it again? 😛 I like this. G-d looks around and decides that sandstorms don’t really fit in the artistic theme of Washington D.C., but bureaucratic snafus do. Mission accomplished, with a minimum of unesthetic intervention. I can only assume that G-d buried (and then hid in the warehouse) the cosmic telephone line to G-d because quite frankly G-d got sick and tired of hearing what whiny, arrogant, humankind has to say. > [@jsc1953](#): > > I thought of an even better reason (immediately after hitting Enter, of course) why Sauron wanted the ring: just to keep others from destroying it. If it was lost, he’s fine; but if it falls into the wrong hands, he’s screwed. So, better that he finds it himself first. No, he wanted the ring to keep others from _using_ it. Gandalf often says that Sauron’s biggest fear is that someone may appear, wielding the Ring to cast Sauron down and replace him. > [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > There’d be chaos and melting faces everywhere Dude! I was at that show! Remember when Jerry soloed on “Dark Star”? ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355/76 "2011-10-28T22:24:53Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > I always assumed that the Ark of the Covenant was a sort of magic talisman – possession of it guaranteed that the Israelites would dominate all of Cannan … until they lost it. The US only won WWII because we had it under lock and key. > > One nun who taught me in high school thought it was highlighting the same exact idea. One priest who also taught me also thought it was saying the same thing – but that’s what he hated about the movie. He believed the biblical story of Israelite conquests (and subsequent loss of that ability) was having, then losing God’s favor, not the use of the Ark as a magic device. > > Still, I was always sure that was Spielberg’s point – the divine right of conquest passes from ancient Israel to the United States via possession of the Ark. Dude! Where were you in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6218081&posted=1#post6218081)? I got my horse shot out from under me for suggesting the exact same thing! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-united-states-government-right-at-the-end-of-raiders-of-the-lost-ark/600355.md?page=3)