# Was the US founded on Judeo-Christian values? If so, which ones? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808 "2011-10-26T02:02:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/21 "2011-10-26T16:02:40Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > This is nowhere close to true. In many primitive and ancient societies, killing or theft or both were permitted in some or all cases. Sometimes they were institutionalized Cite? (Note: a “cite” for a pagan institution that is paralleled by a Christian institution does not count in this context, for obvious reasons. For instance, “samurai were allowed to kill peasants who dissed them” doesn’t cut it, as it is clearly paralleled by “Christian lords were allowed to execute peasants for _lese majeste_”.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/22 "2011-10-26T16:02:47Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Isn’t a democratically elected government a republic? Agreed. Subsequent events demonstrated that Geneva was a very good reflection of the charcter of its citizens. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/23 "2011-10-26T16:03:23Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > This is nowhere close to true. In many primitive and ancient societies, killing or theft or both were permitted in some or all cases. Sometimes they were institutionalized. As for babies always being considered good, not even close. To give one example, in Ancient Greece and Rome in Pagan times, it was legal for the male head of household to kill his wife, kids, slaves, or anyone else in the household. Infanticide was also common. If you read Plato, Aristotle, and other leading intellects of those civilizations, you’ll seem them advocating killing children who are deemed physically or mentally inferior for the sake of improving the race. > > This all ended when Christianity took over western civilization. Infanticide was outlawed and laws were changed to give women and children the right to live and more personal freedoms. So, as those values persisted in western civilization directly through to the United States at its founding, the United States certainly did incorporate values that began with Christianity. > Isn’t a democratically elected government a republic? And where in the bible is it wrong to kill babies? Augustine had little respect for women and I would appreciate any evidence that the early church did not. “I cannot think of any reason for woman’s being made as man’s helper, if we dismiss the reason of procreation.” “how much more agreeable it is for two male friends to dwell together than for a man and a woman!” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/24 "2011-10-26T16:05:44Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > “how much more agreeable it is for two male friends to dwell together than for a man and a woman!” History doth not record whether he found women deficient in luggage-lifting capacity. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/25 "2011-10-26T16:45:57Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > The thing about the Religious Right is they’re ignorant. Proudly so in general, but they aren’t even competent at theology. > > A simple amateur like me … “_Render unto Caesar …_” and they’re outclassed. You are aware, are you not, that the whole “Render unto Caesar” story is a liberal corruption of what Jesus actually taught? Fortunately, the [Conservative Bible Project](http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project) has finished the New Testament, so the truth is out there. Their noble aims:[ol] [li]Framework against Liberal Bias: providing a strong framework that enables a thought-for-thought translation without corruption by liberal bias. For example, the Living Bible translation has liberal evolutionary bias; the widely used NIV translation has a pro-abortion bias.[/li][li]Not Emasculated: avoiding unisex, “gender inclusive” language, and other feminist distortions; preserve many references to the unborn child (the NIV deletes these).[/li][li]Not Dumbed Down: not dumbing down the reading level, or diluting the intellectual force and logic of Christianity; the NIV is written at only the 7th grade level.[/li][li]Utilize Terms which better capture original intent: using powerful new conservative terms to capture better the original intent; Defective translations use the word “comrade” three times as often as “volunteer;” similarly, updating words that have a change in meaning, such as “word”, “peace”, and “miracle.”[/li][li]Combat Harmful Addiction: combating addiction by using modern terms for it, such as “gamble” rather than “cast lots”; using modern political terms, such as “register” rather than “enroll” for the census.[/li][li]Accept the Logic of Hell: applying logic with its full force and effect, as in not denying or downplaying the very real existence of Hell or the Devil.[/li][li]Express Free Market Parables; explaining the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning.[/li][li]Exclude Later-Inserted Inauthentic Passages: excluding the interpolated passages that liberals commonly put their own spin on, such as the adulteress story.[/li][li]Credit Open-Mindedness of Disciples: crediting open-mindedness, often found in youngsters like the eyewitnesses Mark and John, the authors of two of the Gospels.[/li][li]Prefer Conciseness over Liberal Wordiness: preferring conciseness to the liberal style of high word-to-substance ratio; avoid compound negatives and unnecessary ambiguities; prefer concise, consistent use of the word “Lord” rather than “Jehovah” or “Yahweh” or “Lord God.”[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/26 "2011-10-26T17:10:43Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Cite? (Note: a “cite” for a pagan institution that is paralleled by a Christian institution does not count in this context, for obvious reasons. For instance, “samurai were allowed to kill peasants who dissed them” doesn’t cut it, as it is clearly paralleled by “Christian lords were allowed to execute peasants for _lese majeste_”.) I’ve already given examples. [Infanticide in ancient Greece and Rome](http://www.wou.edu/las/socsci/history/thesis%2008/MindyNicholsThesis.pdf). The fact that a Roman male head of household held power of life and death over everyone in the household, under the law known as [Patria Potestas](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Patria_Potestas.html). Of course there are other examples, the best known being that in ancient Rome people were forced to fight to the death with each other and animals for public entertainment. Then there was unit decimation, in which an army unit would draw straws and one tenth were chosen to be killed, while the other nine tenths were required to do the killing. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/27 "2011-10-26T17:14:52Z")
Of course. It’s impossible to separate culture from the founding of a new nation. It doesn’t mean that our law should be Christian law, but it had influence. _shrug_ The only time I have a problem with that notion is when someone asserts that we need to ‘stay true’ to 17th C Christian values. I’m completely biased here, but Jewish law _is_ a cornerstone of Western Civilization. Or at least our legal systems. 😉 //half-joking ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/28 "2011-10-26T17:19:05Z")
Separation of Church and State dates back to the “Two Swords” doctrine, and based on how it came to pass in the US, I’m comfortable with describing it as coming from “Christian values.” This also goes more broadly for the liberty of conscience principles. I don’t see how we can get to them in their American contexts without noting the debates and evolutions within American Christianity (and European Christianity) from which they emerged. Journeys are important too, not just the final conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/29 "2011-10-26T18:09:56Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I’ve already given examples. [Infanticide in ancient Greece and Rome](http://www.wou.edu/las/socsci/history/thesis%2008/MindyNicholsThesis.pdf). The fact that a Roman male head of household held power of life and death over everyone in the household, under the law known as [Patria Potestas](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Patria_Potestas.html). Of course there are other examples, the best known being that in ancient Rome people were forced to fight to the death with each other and animals for public entertainment. Then there was unit decimation, in which an army unit would draw straws and one tenth were chosen to be killed, while the other nine tenths were required to do the killing. Like the decimation Moses committed to the Levites? Or the murder of Crispus and Fausta By Constantine? The prohibitory stance on infanticide was a Jewish cultural choice that Jesus actually called the priests out on as not following the scripture. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/30 "2011-10-26T19:17:31Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Like the decimation… You know that none of your examples are Christian, right? I mean, I don’t care about the argument, but if you’re trying to use examples of systematic Christian evil, you kinda missed the point. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/31 "2011-10-26T19:36:06Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The prohibitory stance on infanticide was a Jewish cultural choice that Jesus actually called the priests out on as not following the scripture. No, actually you just made that up. As for your other two sentence fragmnets, I see zero relevance of them to the topic of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/32 "2011-10-26T22:08:14Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In many primitive and ancient societies, killing or theft or both were permitted in some or all cases. I do not believe there has ever been a society in all of human history where killing and theft were simply permitted. What human beings _have_ greatly struggled with is extending the universal prohibitions against killing and theft to “others”, to people _outside_ the society. A long history of Christian crusaders, conquistadors, and colonizers demonstrates that the Christianization of the Roman Empire and post-Roman Europe certainly did not lead to a quick and easy shift to the recognition of universal human rights, even for people who are not members of our own tribe, city, religion, or nation. Many Christians over the centuries had no problem with killing other people, enslaving the survivors, and taking their loot–as long as the victims were “pagans” or “heretics”. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The fact that a Roman male head of household held power of life and death over everyone in the household, under the law known as [Patria Potestas](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Patria_Potestas.html). Of course there are other examples, the best known being that in ancient Rome people were forced to fight to the death with each other and animals for public entertainment. Then there was unit decimation, in which an army unit would draw straws and one tenth were chosen to be killed, while the other nine tenths were required to do the killing. The end of Patria Potestas over members of one’s household may be a genuine shift from pagan to Christian values. However, as late as the 18th century, Christians _were_ still asserting [a right to kill slaves as a matter of convenience](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zong_Massacre). As for decimation and so on–those were _punishments_, meted out to people considered criminals (including religious dissidents). Christian societies certainly continued for many centuries to carry out capital punishment, often by extremely gruesome methods, and for all sorts of offenses that we would now consider relatively trivial or not even crimes at all (including the “crime” of dissenting against the established religion–the same as the pagan Roman Empire once did to Christians). ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/33 "2011-10-26T22:36:18Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > No, actually you just made that up. As for your other two sentence fragmnets, I see zero relevance of them to the topic of this thread. You may want to look at the sticky before you claim I am lie. If anyone claims that their religion is the SOURCE of values they need to prove that their religion teaches those values vs the culture at large being responsible for them. You have ignored the request for a cite in the bible that denounces infanticide, so your claim just as useless. Tacitus said that Jews “regard it as a crime to kill any late-born children.” Josephus speaking of Jewish custom claimed it “forbids women to cause abortion of what is begotten, or to destroy it afterward.” So we have evidence that: a) Jews, previous to the arrival of Christ denounced infanticide b) they did so outside of scripture As another posted out decimation is was an Abrahamic practice and is well documented in scripture. Constantine, the organizer of the meeting for the first counsel, the ruler that gave Christianity it’s hold on Europe, killed his adult child and wife to appease his mother shortly after doing so. Yet he his still held in high esteem in most church. I would say this hurts your claim that that morality came from the church Without the scripture I would say it was the people who became less brutal, and IMHO it was probably due in part to the rise of Epicureanism around the same time. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/34 "2011-10-27T00:19:39Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > snip Sorry people, I pulled an all nighter at work last night and my dyslexia won over on my repeated spelling/grammar check. But to answer the OP, It would depend on what you think of as “values” As for the form of government I would say no it has its grounds in the theory of “social contract” This IMHO is an outgrowth of humanism, and mostly not the secular kind. Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s “The Social Contract” was probably a large influence, as it was released about 10 years before the revolution. Although its contents probably did not reach the average person until after the war had started and Thomas Pain released “Common Sense” He is probably the best person to be credited for non-landowners being granted suffrage and it was a highly radical idea at the time. Many of these individuals were deists, no self asserted atheists that I know of although even being a deist cost Thomas Pain a lot so they may have been “closeted” We for the most part adopted British common law, and that may be an indicator of morality but that was most likely just more practical. Obviously most immigrants were Christian, but that label is so broad it is hard to ascribe any morality to a person based on that label, but I do not think our system of government and basic concept of justice (if you were white) was based on any biblical pretext, but I am open to being convinced otherwise. I would argue that our work ethic probably does derive from the puritans who in an attempt to avoid the reformation suffered greatly to displace the native populations and establish agriculture etc… Obviously I am touching on a broad bunch of subjects here, but do you have a clarification on what form of morality you are asking about? Or are you talking about the US being mostly Christian? if so the Great Awakenings may be what you are looking for? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/35 "2011-10-27T01:13:38Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > :dubious: > > If there was a contest to select the most perfect theocratic dictatorship in history… that would be John Calvin’s Geneva. > > But, yeah, “republic” sounds real cool and worthy. A republic is a mere absence of a monarchy. [QUOTE] > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Wait, are we defining “Christian values” by the stuff in the Bible, which explicitly commands the subjugation of women, or the cultures that tend towards Christianity, which may at different times enforce or forget the subjugation of women stuff as is convenient? Because treating women as second class citizens certainly does seem to be explicit. No it merely argues that men is the head of the family, not its absolute dictator who can beat his wife or whatnot. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I said “most of history”. Don’t take it personally; it was pretty much antithetical to all religious thought for most of history. > > Geneva wasn’t a “republic”. It had a democratically elected city government, which existed long before Calvin got there. A republic is merely an absence of a monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/36 "2011-10-27T02:09:12Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > A republic is a mere absence of a monarchy. > > A republic is merely an absence of a monarchy. Repeating nonsense does not make it more true with repetition. There are many forms of government that are not monarchic yet are not republican. A short list would inlcude tribal, plutocratic, oligarchic, full democracy, or anarchic, (although that last one will never survive long). For that matter, depending on the definition one uses to identify monarchy, even despotism is different than monarchy. So, your repeated sentence has no validity. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/37 "2011-10-27T02:16:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Repeating nonsense does not make it more true with repetition. > > There are many forms of government that are not monarchic yet are not republican. > A short list would inlcude tribal, plutocratic, oligarchic, full democracy, or anarchic, (although that last one will never survive long). For that matter, depending on the definition one uses to identify monarchy, even despotism is different than monarchy. > > So, your repeated sentence has no validity. No, republic in its literal sense means there is no monarch. So yes Stalin’s USSR was a republic. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/38 "2011-10-27T02:26:50Z")
This has been another episode in thread-wrecking pedanticism by **Qin Shi Huangdi[**. If you’ve enjoyed the preceeding episode, please punch a baby. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/39 "2011-10-27T14:20:08Z")
It’s pretty clear that the federal government was founded to be explicitly secular. Not so much for the states, though, until later in the 19th century. Massachusetts, for example, had wording such as this in its constitution, that you certainly wouldn’t find in the federal version: > [@](#): > > Article III. As the happiness of a people and the good order and preservation of civil government essentially depend upon piety, religion, and morality, and as these cannot be generally diffused through a community but by the institution of the public worship of God and of the public instructions in piety, religion, and morality: Therefore, To promote their happiness and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies-politic or religious societies to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion, and morality in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily. > > And the people of this commonwealth have also a right to, and do, invest their legislature with authority to enjoin upon all the subject an attendance upon the instructions of the public teachers aforesaid, at stated times and seasons, if there be any on whose instructions they can conscientiously and conveniently attend. > > Provided, notwithstanding, That the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies-politic, or religious societies, shall at all times have the exclusive right and electing their public teachers and of contracting with them for their support and maintenance. > > And all moneys paid by the subject to the support of public worship and of public teachers aforesaid shall, if he require it, be uniformly applied to the support of the public teacher or teachers of his own religious sect or denomination, provided there be any on whose instructions he attends; otherwise it may be paid toward the support of the teacher or teachers of the parish or precinct in which the said moneys are raised. > > And every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law; and no subordination of any sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808/40 "2011-10-27T14:52:41Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > You may want to look at the sticky before you claim I am lie. I’m not claiming that you’re lying, but rather that the statement you posted was untrue, which I’m very much allowed to do. You said: “The prohibitory stance on infanticide was a Jewish cultural choice that Jesus actually called the priests out on as not following the scripture.” This is untrue. The fact that the Jews denounced infanticide is true, the claim that Jesus disagreed with this is flatly false. It’s easy to read the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and verify that Jesus never did any such thing. Therefore your claim is wrong. > [@](#): > > You have ignored the request for a cite in the bible that denounces infanticide, so your claim just as useless. Well, I never said in this thread that the Bible denounces infanticide so there’s no reason why I should provide a cite for it. (Though if I wanted to provide such a cite it would be easy. Luke 18:19 would be one of a great many possibilities.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-us-founded-on-judeo-christian-values-if-so-which-ones/600808.md?page=3)