# Was the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) A - D a 'closed environmental system'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [June 6, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723 "2021-06-06T21:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/21 "2021-06-07T16:57:24Z")
> [@bump](#): > > replicated food may not have always been as awesome as it sounds This is actually explicitly addressed in _ST:Picard_. There was one scene where a character replicated the _ingredients_ to make whatever it was he was making, but then cooked them himself because he “didn’t like the way the replicator made it.” That could arguably mean he simply didn’t like the default recipe the replicator used, but later on some of the characters discuss how real, fresh vegetables are superior to replicated ones. It’s been a while since I’ve watched DS9, but I think they touched on that, too, what with Sisco’s dad being a chef and all. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/22 "2021-06-07T17:14:15Z")
Troi complained that replicated cocoa beans never tasted as good as real ones—they lacked “nuances.” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/23 "2021-06-07T19:56:50Z")
I haven’t watched _Picard_ yet, but I do recall that from DS9, and ISTR there being some off-hand remarks about it in some of the other series as well. I would think if you replicated all the ingredients for say… chocolate chip cookies instead of just getting replicated cookies, it’s not a question of replicator ability, but more the specific recipe in some fashion - more vanilla, cooked longer, different proportions, etc… I would imagine that the replicator would likely make the SAME exact dish every single time. So while it might be a Wagyu steak cooked just perfectly, you might want variation in toughness, flavor, marbling, etc… over time. Something like ice cream might be a bit different though. And the idea that things that are the products of very complicated chemical processes like roasted beans (coffee OR chocolate) might not get all the nuances across, or if they did, it would be molecularly identical cups of coffee every single time, like the steak. They’d have to either have the replicator programs have fairly complicated variation routines that could simulate steaks coming from different animals raised ever so slightly differently, or cooked ever so slightly differently, they’d have to have a bewildering array of different replicable foods to account for the variations in ingredients and preparation. (this is assuming that they basically “scan” the real thing via something like a transporter, and then replicate that specific thing as many times as they want, instead of having some sort of simulated model of a chocolate chip cookie that has no actual relation to an actual cookie at any point) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/24 "2021-06-07T20:16:29Z")
I imagine that on any starship, in any era, they attempt to recycle as much as their technology allows, but it’s never perfectly efficient, so they always eventually need resupply. What changes as technology advances is just how small the inefficiencies are. So a TNG-era ship (like Voyager) could go for much longer without resupply than an original series one. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/25 "2021-06-07T21:06:44Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > And there was one visit to a starbase for extensive maintenance (a “baryon sweep”) that required equipment that the ship couldn’t provide for itself. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That was a cleaning procedure. Not replenishment. I remember this episode, and IIRC, Picard damn near gets himself caught in Ten Foward while fleeing the sweep. This makes sense, in that shipboard _overhauls_ are so energy/labor intensive that they _should_ be done at a Starbase. > [@terentii](#): > > They apparently had replicator technology, which would logically follow from the existence of the transporter. They just didn’t use it for mundane things like waste conversion and food preparation, possibly because of the vast amounts of energy it required. I vaguely recall Worf, in one episode, at a dedicated replicator station creating some sort of a gift for someone (perhaps Alexander). In the meantime, I’ve been able to dig out my now-yellowing hardback copy of _ST:TNG Technical Manual_. Section 12.5 says: > [@](#): > > Unlike a planetary biosphere, however, a starship must use technologic means to approximate the complex ecologic processes that sustain life… > > … wastewater is pumped to treatment and recycling units located in the environmental support complexes on Decks 6, 13, and 24. Preliminary treatment is accomplished by a series of mechanical filtration processes that remove solids and particulates. (The residue is conveyed to the organic waste processing system for further treatment and recycling.) Osmotic and electrolytic fractioning is then employed to remove dissolved and microscopic contaminants for treatment and recycling. The resulting water is superheated to 150 C for biological sterilization before being subjected to a final mechanical filtration stage, then it is returnedd to one of the several freshwater storage tanks for reuse. > > Solid waste such as trash is conveyed to processing units on Decks 9, 13, and 24 by means of linear induction utility conduits. Incoming solid waste is automatically scanned and classified as to type and composition. items that can be recycled with mechanical reprocessing are separated. Such items, which constitute approximately 82% of all solid waste, include articles of clothing, packaging and other discarded containers, and small personal articles. These items are conveyed to a series of dedicated processors that first sterilize the waste products, then reduce them to a recyclable form (such as the processed fiber packets from which uniforms and other garments are fabricated). Hazardous materials (such as toxic, biohazard, and radioactive subtances) are separate, and the remaining unrecoverable material is stored for matter replication recycling. > > Matter that cannot be directly recycled by mechanical or chemical means is stored for matter synthesis recycling. This is accomplished by molecular matrix replicators that actually dematerialize the waste materials and rematerialize them in the form of desired objects or materials stored in computer memory. While this process provides an enormous variety of useful items, it is very energy intensive and many everyday consumables (such as water and clothing) are recycled by less energy intensive mechanical or chemical means. Certain types of consumables (such as foodstuffs) are routinely recycled using matter replication because this results in a considerable savings of raw materials. There’s a whole other section devoted to Food Replicator Systems (13.5) but it’s noteworthy in that . . . > [@](#): > > Although raw food stock is normally replaced at starbase resupply, osmotic and electrolitic fractioning of wastewater allows up to 82% of food stock to be reclaimed and reused. In a shortage, raw food stock can be replicated from general raw stock or waste material, but the energy cost is correspondingly higher, so this practice is to be avoided. So, from what I read, last night’s dinner on the “D” will be tomorrow night’s meal, but can also be a birthday present for the Captain. I would hate to be that OIC in charge of sewage processing. Tripler _“Ensign **Tripler** , you are hereby relieved of your duties! Report to the ‘poop deck’ for reassignment.”_ 🖖 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/26 "2021-06-07T21:09:29Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > > [@terentii](#): > > > > They apparently had replicator technology, which would logically follow from the existence of the transporter. They just didn’t use it for mundane things like waste conversion and food preparation, possibly because of the vast amounts of energy it required. > > I vaguely recall Worf, in one episode, at a dedicated replicator station creating some sort of a gift for someone (perhaps Alexander). I was referring to TOS technology. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/27 "2021-06-07T21:10:36Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I was referring to TOS technology. Was that baryon sweep in TOS? I must not have gotten that far yet. 🤦‍♂️ Tripler I’m conflating series, aren’t I? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/28 "2021-06-07T21:11:48Z")
The Baryon sweep was in TNG. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/29 "2021-06-07T21:38:57Z")
I see my goof, and stand corrected. Trip ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/30 "2021-06-07T21:50:58Z")
Yep. My point being that even in the TNG era there were operations that the Enterprise needed in order to continue to operate that could not be done by themselves. Even if they could make food, they weren’t entirely a self-sufficient operation. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/31 "2021-06-07T22:31:08Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Troi complained that replicated cocoa beans never tasted as good as real ones—they lacked “nuances.” Troi probably thinks vinyl sounds better than “replicated” music. If food replicator tech works like we think > [@bump](#): > > (this is assuming that they basically “scan” the real thing via something like a transporter, and then replicate that specific thing as many times as they want, instead of having some sort of simulated model of a chocolate chip cookie that has no actual relation to an actual cookie at any point) …then Troi just doesn’t like then version of chocolate that the replicator offers. The rest of us might. (Except for the hipsters, they hate everything. Unless they like it ironically. “We reach, brother.”) ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/32 "2021-06-08T00:20:09Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > [Redshirts](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Redshirt) are apparently non-replaceable consumables Actually, Kirk spent a lot of time trying to make spare Redshirts… (somebody had to say it!) ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/33 "2021-06-10T02:45:20Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > I vaguely recall Worf, in one episode, at a dedicated replicator station creating some sort of a gift for someone (perhaps Alexander). That was in _Data’s Day_. Worf was at the otherwise un-named, and never again shown replicating center to select a gift for Miles and Keiko’s wedding. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/34 "2021-06-10T11:48:19Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > That was in _Data’s Day_ . Worf was at the otherwise un-named, and never again shown replicating center to select a gift for Miles and Keiko’s wedding. Thank you–I think I’m now 1 for 5 in this thread. Tripler My biggest goof was thinking the “A” was in TOS. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/35 "2021-06-10T17:36:29Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Worf was at the otherwise un-named, and never again shown replicating center to select a gift for Miles and Keiko’s wedding. What do you give someone that can go to the replicator and get anything? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/36 "2021-06-10T18:28:57Z")
Something that only you would think of - but which they would like (I know - it’s hard to figure out what such a thing would be, but even today, people prefer a present than cash, even though with cash, you can buy the present you want). ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/37 "2021-06-10T18:46:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > My head-wank is that replenishment takes place every time they get new personnel that aren’t seen arriving by shuttlecraft. Or they just pull clones out of storage pods on the below decks akin to [_Moon_](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/) or [_Paranoia_](https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/44031/paranoia). In fact, given how good “holodeck technology” is, there is really no reason to believe that any of the shows are actually anything more than a simulation, hence why the ‘look’ of the show changes so radically between the original series, the TNG/DS9/Voyager era, and the Abrams/Kurtzman productions, and why Klingons keep mutating every few years; production of the simulation just changed from Interplay to Black Isle to Bethesda and finally to Obsidian, with nobody terribly worried about the continuity of stage production. > [@terentii](#): > > Troi complained that replicated cocoa beans never tasted as good as real ones—they lacked “nuances.” Troi was also supposed to be the “ship’s counsellor” with empathic abilities to detect emotions, and yet in any confrontation or negotiation she was never able to offer the captain any more information about the opponent’s emotional state than the average person could intuit by vocalization and body language (and for someone like Geordi, the ability to see heat and subdermal blood flow). Troi is essentially a fraud as an empath, so her culinary expertise is also in question. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/38 "2021-06-10T19:08:05Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Troi is essentially a fraud as an empath, so her culinary expertise is also in question. In an episode of _Star Trek: Picard_ we see her husband doing all the cooking. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/39 "2021-06-13T18:32:58Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > …then Troi just doesn’t like then version of chocolate that the replicator offers. The rest of us might. (Except for the hipsters, they hate everything. Unless they like it ironically. “We reach, brother.”) The issue was that the replicator didn’t replicate chocolate at all, it replicated something that was supposed to taste & look like chocolate, but with a higher nutritional value. Troi wanted “real” chocolate and had to enter a command override to get the replicator to make itl. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723/40 "2021-06-13T18:39:56Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Troi is essentially a fraud as an empath, so her culinary expertise is also in question. - Besides being half-human, she was probably swamped by the feelings of lust that followed her everywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-a-d-a-closed-environmental-system/943723.md?page=3)