# Was the waitress wrong or am I? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879 "2011-08-24T08:05:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/41 "2011-08-24T16:50:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Several people said I should have raised the issue about the bill. > > In my opinion, I did raise the issue. When I told her I wanted unsweetened tea rather than sweetened tea and sent back the undrank sweet tea. So I figured the situation was clear and there wasn’t any point in discussing it again when I got the bill other than for the sake of having a public argument. No, you raised the issue about getting the wrong tea. The extra tea on the bill is a separate issue. As others have said, it might have easily been a mistake. Docking the tip was passive aggressive. If you had addressed the bill with the waitress and she refused to remove the extra tea or was snotty about it, then adjusting the tip would be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/42 "2011-08-24T17:20:21Z")
I have no problem with docking a tip for bad service, and by my lights, this waitress failed on three occasions. First, she failed to understand the beverages sold by her employer, as iced tea and sweet tea are two distinct and separate things. Second, presumed, based upon that failed comprehension, what Little Nemo wanted rather than clarifying. Third, she wrote up an improper bill, knowing full well that she was charging a customer for an item that they did not order and had returned, unwanted. Yes, server minimum wage is ridiculously low and the job of a server is difficult. But knowing your menu and not substituting your own judgment ahead of customer requests are integral parts of the job. Had it been me, not only would I have had the unwanted tea removed from the bill, I would’ve docked the tip as well. (Not the full cost of the tea, since I wouldn’t have paid for it, but by a buck or so.) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/43 "2011-08-24T17:33:29Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > No, you raised the issue about **getting the wrong tea**. > [@tumbleddown](#): > > Third, she wrote up an improper bill, knowing full well that she was charging a customer for **an item that they did not order** and had returned, unwanted. Actually that point is not clear to me. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I ordered my meal and asked for a glass of iced tea. The waitress did not ask me any questions about my order. > > When my drink arrived, I found out my iced tea was heavily sweetened. I generally don’t like sweet tea. When the waitress walked by, **I asked her if they had unsweetened tea** and she said they did. I asked her is I could have an unsweetened tea instead of sweet tea. See, after receiving the sweet tea he asks about the _availability_ of something else. I can understand how that could come across, or at least be innocently recorded, as _placing a new order_. Nowhere, it seems, does he simply tell her straight up “I did not order sweet tea.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/44 "2011-08-24T17:34:55Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > No, you raised the issue about getting the wrong tea. The extra tea on the bill is a separate issue. As others have said, it might have easily been a mistake. Docking the tip was passive aggressive. If you had addressed the bill with the waitress and she refused to remove the extra tea or was snotty about it, then adjusting the tip would be appropriate. I didn’t see it as passive aggressive. To me passive aggressive would be if I had done something like ordering a second unsweetened iced tea and then leaving the first sweetened tea undrank on my table without saying anything on the assumption the waitress would figure out that she had made a mistake. But I explicitly told her that I wanted an unsweetened tea as a replacement for my sweetened tea. So she understood the situation. And knowing this, she charged me for two teas. So there wasn’t anything I could have added at this point. All I could have done was repeat what I had already said and argued about it. I didn’t see any benefit from having an argument that I didn’t need to have and one which was not going to really change anything. I paid the same amount of money I would have paid if she hadn’t charged me for the second tea. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/45 "2011-08-24T17:38:08Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > See, after receiving the sweet tea he asks about the _availability_ of something else. I can understand how that could come across, or at least be innocently recorded, as _placing a new order_. > > Nowhere, it seems, does he simply tell her straight up “I did not order sweet tea.” I don’t remember my exact words but I did make it clear that what I had wanted was unsweetened tea. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/46 "2011-08-24T17:41:22Z")
The way I see it it would be like if I had ordered mashed potatoes and they were served to me with ketchup on them. And if I told the waitress I hadn’t ordered ketchup on my mashed potatoes and she answered, “well, you didn’t specifically tell us not to put ketchup on them”. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/47 "2011-08-24T17:50:59Z")
Even if you were in a restaurant where “sweet tea” is the default (in the south, and in some southern-style BBQ joints up north, or at least around Portland), if you ordered iced tea, and the waitress just assumed you want it sweetened, I’d expect her to leave the first drink off the bill. If you’d ordered sweet (or sweetened for us Northerners) tea, then after tasting it decided you’d prefer unsweetened, maybe she’d have been justified in billing you for both. But in your case, you were clearly right to dock her the cost of the tea. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/48 "2011-08-24T18:00:31Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > I don’t think docking from the tip was appropriate. The bill was incorrect (as it had an extra beverage) and should have been brought to the waitresses attention. I agree. If you didn’t ask to have the tea removed from the ticket, how do you know they wouldn’t have? So you deduct the cost of the tea from _the tip_? You mention the rest of the meal was fine, so I’m assuming the service was as well. The proper thing to do here (if you’re not going to ask to have the tea removed from your ticket) would have been to tip based on your total minus the cost of the tea. It used to chap my ass when I waited tables in college and someone would come in with BOGO coupon or a gift card, and they’d leave their tip based on the ticket after the deduction. Two $20 meals and you have a BOGO coupon? Great. My tip just went from ~$8 to $4. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/49 "2011-08-24T18:09:49Z")
> [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](#): > > Even if you were in a restaurant where “sweet tea” is the default (in the south, and in some southern-style BBQ joints up north, or at least around Portland), if you ordered iced tea, and the waitress just assumed you want it sweetened, I’d expect her to leave the first drink off the bill. Indeed, in many restaurants in the South you wouldn’t be charged for the item you didn’t want even if the mistake was _unambiguously yours_. Also the refills are typically included, so two teas to one customer would appear as one tea on the bill anyway. That is _not_ often the case elsewhere IME. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/50 "2011-08-24T18:12:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Several people said I should have raised the issue about the bill. > > In my opinion, I did raise the issue. When I told her I wanted unsweetened tea rather than sweetened tea and sent back the undrank sweet tea. So I figured the situation was clear and there wasn’t any point in discussing it again when I got the bill other than for the sake of having a public argument. You faced two issues that day, which while related, were still separate. You only addressed one (that you made her aware of directly, anyway). The first issue was the tea, which you both worked to resolve. The second issue, she never got the chance to fix. In my experience, its not uncommon to have items remain on the bill, when orders are incorrect, but the oversight has always been corrected. I can’t say it’s ever been a public argument, either. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/51 "2011-08-24T18:15:56Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > I agree. If you didn’t ask to have the tea removed from the ticket, how do you know they wouldn’t have? > > So you deduct the cost of the tea from _the tip_? You mention the rest of the meal was fine, so I’m assuming the service was as well. The proper thing to do here (if you’re not going to ask to have the tea removed from your ticket) would have been to tip based on your total minus the cost of the tea. IMO, docking the tip was perfectly appropriate - if the waitress intentionally double-billed, then she’s eating the cost of that decision. If the waitress mistakenly double-billed, then she’s eating the cost of her mistake. Whether the waitress rang up the order or not, it was her responsibility to make the “tea replacement” situation clear to whomever rang it up. We tip for good service, not as a default - if something like this happens, the tip should account for it, because it’s bad service, whether by design or by negligence. As for myself, I would probably have tactfully raised the issue when paying the bill - not because of any concern about the tip I’d give the waitress, but just because I’m like that. But that’s me, and I can totally understand why many folks wouldn’t want to bother. > [@](#): > > It used to chap my ass when I waited tables in college and someone would come in with BOGO coupon or a gift card, and they’d leave their tip based on the ticket after the deduction. Two $20 meals and you have a BOGO coupon? Great. My tip just went from ~$8 to $4. Now that’s a different issue entirely, and I’m fully with you - tipping based on a coupon or gift card discount is a major dick move. If I just got an awesome $40 meal for two with great service, but only paid $20, I’m certainly not going to tip a measly $4. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/52 "2011-08-24T18:39:44Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Yeah, just be more assertive next time. If someone tried that in Michigan (good tea by default, not sweet), I’d make them set it straight. > > Oh, wait, it happens all the time to me at McDonald’s now since they’ve introduced crappy, hillbilly, sweet tea. > > On the other hand if you should go to Kentucky or Ontario or some other foreign place and order iced tea (not “ice tea”) and literally spit it out on the table because it scared you because it wasn’t what you were expecting, then it’s fair to have to pay for a proper, unsweetened tea after having received the first abomination – after all, that (somehow) is their so-called “culture.” We probably should have it as a banner at all the borders - iced tea in Canada is highly likely to not be what US Americans expect it to be. I learned this from working with some people from Texas - they (like you, **Balthisar** ) seemed to be personally affronted that we don’t do iced tea/sweetened tea the same way as places in the US. Personally, I make no apologies for it. I _like_ crappy fountain iced tea. 🙂 I think your waitress was in the wrong, **Little Nemo**. I had a similar situation a year or so ago; the menu had plain pan bread on it, and also pan bread with balsamic vinegar and oil as an appetizer. We ordered (what we thought) was the bread and oil and vinegar as an appetizer. We got a dry hunk of bread. I was a little amazed at the waitress for not thinking that maybe we would like the appetizer version of bread, not just a hunk of bread, and maybe asking us if all we wanted was just the dry chunk of bread to gnaw on while we waited for our dinners (we hadn’t realized that there were two version of bread on the menu - we thought we had ordered the right thing). If there are two things on a menu that are similar, I think it is up to the wait staff to know that and clarify with their customers. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/53 "2011-08-24T18:54:50Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Nothing? Pennies? I run a business that has a deli area, I oughta hire you two to do my purchasing. I’m staying out of this debate, but it pisses me off when people think that everything is free for the restaurant and the owner just puts all the money in his pocket. We have entirely too little information about the restaurant and the product, but I can weigh in here. I opened a tea bar in my bookstore. If you come in and order iced tea, you have 80 different teas to choose from, and I brew it fresh in front of you. My costs obviously depend on what you order, but the tea leaves themselves anywhere from 0.13 to about 1.00 for a 20-ounce cup. The cup (20-ounce compostable), lid, and straw run about .035 combined. I’ve had people put in 0.25 or more in stevia, or double that in honey (we serve locally-made clover-alfalfa honey). Incremental out-of-pocket expenses start at .48 for the cheapest stuff in the store, unsweetened, and can run as high as 1.85. And that’s not even considering chai (which requires milk), boba (which requires milk, syrup, and tapioca pearls), or any of the other specialty teas. I also just spent $900.00 on a used ice machine and $200 on a water temperature control unit, so I’ll have to amortize that in somewhere. Bottom line, **Joey** is right. Tea ain’t free. Yes, I realize that the OP may have been getting some powdered crap instead of brewed tea, but even still, **Joey** ’s point is valid. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/54 "2011-08-24T19:20:14Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > I agree. If you didn’t ask to have the tea removed from the ticket, how do you know they wouldn’t have? > > So you deduct the cost of the tea from _the tip_? You mention the rest of the meal was fine, so I’m assuming the service was as well. The proper thing to do here (if you’re not going to ask to have the tea removed from your ticket) would have been to tip based on your total minus the cost of the tea. > > It used to chap my ass when I waited tables in college and someone would come in with BOGO coupon or a gift card, and they’d leave their tip based on the ticket after the deduction. Two $20 meals and you have a BOGO coupon? Great. My tip just went from ~$8 to $4. I didn’t think I should have to point out that I shouldn’t be charged for something I didn’t order and didn’t consume. The waitress was aware of both of these things, so what would I have said to her that she didn’t already know? I agree that I shouldn’t short-tip a waitress for something that was beyond her control. If the food had just been bad, I wouldn’t take it out of her tip. But this was an issue concerning how the order was taken and that, to me, means she can be held accountable. If I’d wanted to be a dick about it, I suppose I could have argued the point, had them take the cost of the second tea of my bill - and then left a small tip because of the poor service that led to me having to get my tea replaced and having the argument. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/55 "2011-08-24T19:30:31Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > We probably should have it as a banner at all the borders - iced tea in Canada is highly likely to not be what US Americans expect it to be. I learned this from working with some people from Texas - they (like you, **Balthisar** ) seemed to be personally affronted that we don’t do iced tea/sweetened tea the same way as places in the US. Personally, I make no apologies for it. I _like_ crappy fountain iced tea. 🙂 People from the southern part of the US expect sweetened tea when they order iced tea. People from the rest of the US expect unsweetened tea. I have no idea what y’all are serving in Canada. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/56 "2011-08-24T19:30:39Z")
I would have asked them if they burned a steak I’d ordered as medium rare, would I have to pay for both of them. If they said “yes,” I would have thanked them for giving me a small learning experience to know never to come back there again. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/57 "2011-08-24T19:43:18Z")
I think the OP should’ve been a bit more assertive. Just say: “Excuse me? Why am I charged for 2 teas?”. Then remind the waitress what happened. I am pretty certain that they’ll just take the extra tea off the tab. Not confrontational at all. Just normal operations between two people. So the waitress made a mistake in overbilling and the OP erred in not calling it out to her. Neither is fault-free. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/58 "2011-08-24T19:45:41Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > How much is it, give me a number. Two posters put it at under a nickel. > I’ve been in the business for long enough to know that’s not the case. > I can assure you I’m not only am I not being unreasonable, I’m being extremely realistic and if you talk to other people in the restaurant business. They’ll back me up. Again, to re-iterate, I’m not defending the OP or the waitress/restaurant, all I’m saying is that the iced tea isn’t free and it costs more then pennies. If you agree with that, then we’re not really arguing. > > For the record, at my work, we sell iced coffee, before we started selling it, I did the cost analysis on it. It costs me (with the cup and straw) 55¢ per unit. Granted, I’m sure coffee costs more then tea, but I just wanted to comment on the ‘flavored water and ice’ jab. An average glass of brewed iced tea in a diner costs between 7 and 10 cents, and that’s the high end, with refills. I’ve sold a metric ass-ton of tea in my life, and the math isn’t too difficult. A gallon of Lipton tea, which is what we’re talking about here, costs about 14 cents. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/59 "2011-08-24T19:56:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I didn’t think I should have to point out that I shouldn’t be charged for something I didn’t order and didn’t consume. The waitress was aware of both of these things, so what would I have said to her that she didn’t already know? You _should_ have said “Excuse me, but you accidentally charged me for the tea I didn’t order.” That’s it, mistakes happen in life and this is a completely understandable one. It’s a simple error. If it turns out that it is restaurant policy to charge in this situation you have a beef with management, but I’m finding it hard to believe that this wasn’t a simple mistake. > [@](#): > > If I’d wanted to be a dick about it, I suppose I could have argued the point, had them take the cost of the second tea of my bill - and then left a small tip because of the poor service that led to me having to get my tea replaced and having the argument. The thing is, IMO, you were a dick about it. Not giving the waitress a chance to fix a simple error is impolite. You wouldn’t have gotten an argument, you would have received an apology. Your actions were unjustified and IMO mean-spirited. She made a simple mistake; you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879/60 "2011-08-24T19:56:24Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > I think the OP should’ve been a bit more assertive. Just say: “Excuse me? Why am I charged for 2 teas?”. Then remind the waitress what happened. I am pretty certain that they’ll just take the extra tea off the tab. Not confrontational at all. Just normal operations between two people. So the waitress made a mistake in overbilling and the OP erred in not calling it out to her. Neither is fault-free. The thing was I didn’t order two teas and send one back. She didn’t place the second tea on my bill until I asked for a replacement for the sweetened tea. So she was fully aware she was charging me for a replacement. She didn’t “accidentally” charge me for two teas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-the-waitress-wrong-or-am-i/593879.md?page=4)