# Was there a lot of pressure on immigrants to "Americanize" their names even in the 1950s on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2015, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838 "2015-01-03T07:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/21 "2015-01-03T23:20:20Z")
Ask Richard Steven Valenzuela (Richie Valens) But you could also ask Norma Jean Baker. In the 50’s everybody had a relative on the Mayflower. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/22 "2015-01-03T23:21:30Z")
Ira Garfunkle uses “Art”. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/23 "2015-01-03T23:28:41Z")
\*\*\*\*Can we agree that there could not have been all that much name “Americanization” pressure on the Duke Mens’ Basketball coach and his forebears? I mean, the guy doesn’t even _pronounce_ his name like an American: zhehZHEVski. \*\*ZH \*\*??? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/24 "2015-01-03T23:30:29Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > You mean “accent,” not tilde. The word “tilde” describes the top part of the “ñ.” It is also the word for a linear diacrit mark, so it applies to the accent, and in some Hispanophone countries’ educational system the written mark is primarily called that way. In the example given there is something else going on – among US Anglophones the word “Muñoz” tends to be pronounced upon reading as MUN-yoz, stress in the first syllable, which in Spanish would get the mark, rather than “mun-YOZ” which would be closer to the Spanish norm and does not get the mark. But this does bring up another issue, which is that due to the rather spartan character set of American English a lot of names lost unusual letters and diacrits in the simple act of recording. The Polish _ **ł** _ (makes the sound of an English w) would become a common “l”; _ **ç** _ a common C or else a Z; the Scandinavian ø, Å, etc. would get turned into a plain o or A and so forth; tildes, circumflexes, macrons, umlauts would be dropped; and if your mother tongue was written in nonlatin script you’d get an approximation, if there was no written guide at hand (and the written guide may or may not have been that precise anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/25 "2015-01-04T03:57:06Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Ask Richard Steven Valenzuela (Richie Valens) > > But you could also ask Norma Jean Baker. > > In the 50’s everybody had a relative on the Mayflower. Stage names aren’t the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/26 "2015-01-04T04:40:32Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Just a historical note: very few, if any, names were changed at Ellis Island. Names were taken from the ship’s manifest; if there was any change, it was made before the ship docked. That “Godfather 2” still rears it’s ugly head! ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/27 "2015-01-04T04:44:33Z")
Around the midwestern US, a lot of families shortened names, usually dropping -owski or -inski, or -witz or -wicz. It does show up in family burial plots. I’m not as familiar with Italian names as with Polish, Czech, and various Slavic names. By the time 1950 rolled around, there wasn’t too much Americanization happening to German last names, save an errant umlaut or two. First names are another story. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/28 "2015-01-04T04:57:19Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > You mean “accent,” not tilde. The word “tilde” describes the top part of the “ñ.” Yeah I’ve had this conversation before. When I say accent, someone corrects me that it describes only the way someone pronounces, when I say tilde they tell me it means that squiggly line, which for ñ wasn’t even squiggly before computers. I’ve also been told I should say accent aigu or acute accent, which refer to French. So long as people know what I mean, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/29 "2015-01-04T05:19:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > - Are there any specific rules for capitalization? Some of my acquaintances capitalize the “de” (or “de la” or “del”) while others do not. Does it change with context? For example, one of my friends writes his name as de la Guardia, but when I just looked him up in the Panama phone book he is listed as De La Guardia, . The phone listings seem mostly to capitalize, but there are some names listed as “de XXX” or “De la XXX.” The Ortografía says the articles and prepositions which are part of lastnames do not get capitalized. Hence, [Luis del Olmo](http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_del_Olmo) or your friend’s own spelling are academically correct whereas the phonebook is not. My guess would be that the book was set with the “autocorrect to start with caps” on and the only names which have been reset are those where people have bothered to complain. > [@](#): > > -What happens when a woman marries a man with a surname beginning with “de”? Again I note the phone book lists several names in the form “De La Rosa, Berta Maria Bermudez de” or “De La Guardia, Melisa Isabel Garcia de Paredes de.” However, I can’t recall having seen a name written out in a newspaper or book in the format “Berta Maria Bermudez de De La Rosa” (with two “de’s” in a row). Have I just not noticed it, or is one of the “de’s” dropped in some cases? And what of the case of a single woman whose mother’s name begins with “de”? Can this easily be distinguished from a married woman appending her husband’s name using “de”? Yes, the proper form would have two des. The custom is disappearing, but some of the names you get in 19th century novels almost had chapters of their own… Berta María Bermúdez de la Rosa could be using: - the single lastname Bermúdez de la Rosa, - first lastname Bermúdez, followed by second de la Rosa, - her own Bermúdez followed by de followed by her husband’s la Rosa. To know which, you need to ask. Worst case scenario, she’ll have a first lastname of María, second of Bermúdez, and her husband’s first is la Rosa (why make things simple? This is names, not engineering…). María isn’t a lastname I’ve encountered before, and many of the ones which are firstnames are male names, but you never know. Berta María Bermúdez de de la Rosa is ugly as all heck (a novelist wouldn’t give a character such a name unless they hated her mightily) but it makes it clear that the lady is using her first lastname, followed by de, followed by her husband’s de la Rosa. When said out loud, the first de is emphasized. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/30 "2015-01-04T08:44:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yeah I’ve had this conversation before. When I say accent, someone corrects me that it describes only the way someone pronounces, when I say tilde they tell me it means that squiggly line, which for ñ wasn’t even squiggly before computers. I’ve also been told I should say accent aigu or acute accent, which refer to French. So long as people know what I mean, whatever. In English, the mark over an accented Spanish vowel is an “accent” or “acute accent.” The mark over a Spanish _ñ_ is a “tilde,” usually. (And of course the Portuguese call it something else when it’s a nasalization sign. [Til?](https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Til)) Saying, “Muñoz doesn’t have a tilde,” is puzzling, because obviously the _ñ_ does have one. I think I have _probably_ seen English texts (from before the present century) refer to a “virgulilla” at some point, but I don’t know when. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/31 "2015-01-04T08:46:16Z")
Like I said, my experience is that, no matter what I call it, someone will disagree. I call it whatever comes to mind at the time and await the disagreements. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/32 "2015-01-04T12:58:09Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I don’t think Americans have placed any pressure on immigrants to Anglicize their names… but immigrants may have felt pressure on their own, or may have just disliked having names that stood out. > > Jews in particular have tended to Anglicize their family names (“Ytzakh Steinmetz” becoming “Ira Stone” or “Shlomo Rosenfeld” becoming “Stanley Rose”). Far fewer Irish, Italians or Poles felt any strong need or desire to do so. > > Many people WANT to “fit in,” even if no one is leaning on them to do so. So how did the stetl Jew Sean Fergesen get such a name when he arrived in the US? /I intend to keep asking this when apropos in a thread until someone responds appropriately… ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/33 "2015-01-04T13:36:20Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > That “Godfather 2” still rears it’s ugly head! Actually what I was thinking of was people just rolling with transcription errors, Pterowichz became Perowicz? Eh just roll with it! But even that may be inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/34 "2015-01-04T16:31:49Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Ira Garfunkle uses “Art”. Well, actually he’s Arthur Ira Garfunkle, so “Art” is no surprise. 🙂 There’s an entire [book](http://www.amazon.com/Name-Droppers-Compendium-Notable-Individuals-Changed-ebook/dp/B00LMF0FZW) on the special cases of people who changed their first names but not their family or last names. Much more interesting situations. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/35 "2015-01-04T16:41:47Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > So how did the stetl Jew Sean Fergesen get such a name when he arrived in the US? Not because anyone in US immigration changed it or “got it wrong.” Such is an absolute myth and any historian on the staff at Ellis Island will explain it in as much detail as you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/36 "2015-01-05T03:03:48Z")
Can I point out that not everyone came here via Ellis Island? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/37 "2015-01-05T03:57:58Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > First names are another story, and in places like South Texas or El Paso, it often seems that older Hispanics tend to be more likely to have Anglo-American given names than younger people. Many high school students will have Spanish given names. But many of the Hispanic teachers will have names like Hazel, Mabel, Spencer, and Raymond…its seems that after around 1980, it became less common to assimilate in this way. However, young people with Spanish given names are still quite likely to insist on more English sounding nicknames or given names (plenty of Jorges and Juans will insist on being George and Johnny). I don’t know how much is quite that the older people don’t have Spanish first names, but rather go by “Raymond” instead of “Ramon”, or “Roy” instead of Rojelio, or even Jesse for Jesus. Still, Spanish first names are so common in Texas that nobody I know gives it a second thought- we all know how to pronounce them- nobody’s calling some guy “Jeezus Rodriguez”; it’s well known that it’s “Hay-seus Rodriguez”, just like it’s not “Migwell” it’s “Meeg-ell”. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/38 "2015-01-05T04:15:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Can I point out that not everyone came here via Ellis Island? The staff there are among the pinnacle experts on US immigration history, regardless of the entry point. The trope about agents changing immigrant names bugs them a lot, specifically because it’s so false-to-fact. Also because it is, and always would have been, illegal on several levels. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/39 "2015-01-05T04:29:05Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > All of my Chinese friends/relations, and several of my European acquaintances had “English” names in the 70’s in Aus and Canada. They’ve all switched back to their birth names now. > [@astorian](#): > > I don’t think Americans have placed any pressure on immigrants to Anglicize their names… but immigrants may have felt pressure on their own, or may have just disliked having names that stood out. When I was in grad school I was one of the only native English speakers so my advisor would often ask me to help acclimate the 3 or 4 new grad students he got from china every year. The very first meeting would have us all in a room and he would ask their names, then he would point at each one in turn and say “From now on you’re Pete, Jim, Tom…” Apparently it was the thinking at the time that having an easy to pronounce first name would make it easier for their professors and colleagues to interact with them without the embarrassment of constantly mispronouncing their names. I would not be surprised at all to find out this practice has stopped. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/40 "2015-01-05T04:56:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > These days, not so much pressure to change “exotic” names, although when I worked in a corporation that had a sudden influx of Chinese interns most of them seemed to adopt an “American” name. Seems Americans consistently mangled the pronunciation of their names (wonder if it had something to do with tones?) and rather than hear mangled versions of their names they adopted aliases Americans could consistently pronounce and that, presumably, they liked they sound of or had some sort of attachment to. Not all of them did that, though, and it certainly wasn’t required. Tones is the least of it. My wife’s family name is “Cao”, which you might kinda sorta pronounces as “ts” sound. Invariably, she gets called “Cow” as in “moo”. Frankly “sow” would be closer. IMHO most Chinese adopt an “American” style name for convenience and to avoid being tortured by hearing their name so mispronounced. Plenty of folks think the names they choose are pretty fun. Oddly enough, many go by their American names professionally in China. I can recognize the age of many Chinese or Taiwanese by their American names. For example, if their American name is Rocky, Rambo or Stallone, then I’m 99% sure they were teenagers in the early 1980s. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838.md?page=3)