# Was there a lot of pressure on immigrants to "Americanize" their names even in the 1950s on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2015, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838 "2015-01-03T07:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/41 "2015-01-05T05:32:47Z")
My grandfather moved to the U.S. in the early 1950s, from Yugoslavia via England via NYC. He was “encouraged” in some fashion to adjust his names upon immigration. I would ask him further details, but he passed away a few months ago. ☹ First name Anglicized entirely; the equivalent of changing Dmitrji to James, or Vasilji to William. He possessed no middle name, so adopted an initial there (like Harry S Truman). His last name ended in “йч” (I believe), sometimes written as “-ic” with a diacritic on the C. That was adjusted to “-ich” to somewhat reflect pronunciation. So, his name went from something like Dmitriji Milić to James J. Milich. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/42 "2015-01-05T16:50:27Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > When I was in grad school I was one of the only native English speakers so my advisor would often ask me to help acclimate the 3 or 4 new grad students he got from china every year. > > The very first meeting would have us all in a room and he would ask their names, then he would point at each one in turn and say “From now on you’re Pete, Jim, Tom…” > > Apparently it was the thinking at the time that having an easy to pronounce first name would make it easier for their professors and colleagues to interact with them without the embarrassment of constantly mispronouncing their names. > > I would not be surprised at all to find out this practice has stopped. Well, I was at Columbia Univesity fromn 1979-83, a period when we were just starting to get large numbers of students from China. Most of them had “American” names, but these names were often somewhat old-fashioned and outdated (“Lydia Wong,” “Byron Chen,” et al). These names were not assigned by American professors- they were either assigned or selected back in China. Nobody in America TOLD these students to adopt English names. We would have TRIED to pronounce their Chinese names properly. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/43 "2015-01-05T19:45:28Z")
My paternal grandparents came to America as newlyweds after WWI. In Germany, our last name ended with two 's’es. On the manifest, it was written with only one ‘s’. When the agent asked grandad if his name was correct, he could only nod, not knowing much English yet, even though he could see that it was spelled incorrectly. So although the change was minor, our family name was indeed altered somewhere within the immigration process. My late husband was a foundling. He was assigned a last name by the orphanage that took him in, but never felt any kind of real connection to it. Therefore, when we married, he asked if he could take my last name instead. Legally, that’s allowable, but oh boy what a process it was. At the time, he had to appear before a magistrate and swear that he was not changing his name to avoid creditors or child support. I have no idea if that is still done now, but it was then. I’ve never heard of a woman having to go through such perambulations to have her name changed to her married name. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/44 "2015-01-05T20:19:52Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > So how did the stetl Jew Sean Fergesen get such a name when he arrived in the US? > > /I intend to keep asking this when apropos in a thread until someone responds appropriately… I’d be happy to offer an answer if I had any idea who Sean Fergesen is. Am I SUPPOSED to know of him? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/45 "2015-01-05T20:20:01Z")
I work in the Detroit area and have worked or dealt with numerous Japanese suppliers to the automotive industry and I’d say about half of the Japanese that come over take on an Americanized name. I’ve worked with many a Chuck, Dice, Mack, Joe, and Harry who have what most people (not me) would consider an unpronounceable name. Generally it’s the ones that don’t speak good enough english to properly communicate their ideas that take on these names as they are just basically trying to “get along” with the locals. I take advantage of this by referring to them in there proper Japanese-san when speaking to them one on one or in a formal group setting with their peers. That way they know I’m not just one of the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/46 "2015-01-05T21:26:13Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > My paternal grandparents came to America as newlyweds after WWI. In Germany, our last name ended with two 's’es. On the manifest, it was written with only one ‘s’. When the agent asked grandad if his name was correct, he could only nod, not knowing much English yet, even though he could see that it was spelled incorrectly. So although the change was minor, our family name was indeed altered somewhere within the immigration process. No question that such errors happened, but the manifest would have been written in the country of departure, probably by those speaking the native language. I could see a foreign (British, US) passenger service handling their own emigration/passenger documents and getting it wrong. But an error is not a deliberate change, especially because some immigration clerk was prejudiced, malicious or “thought it would help.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/47 "2015-01-05T22:08:22Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I’d be happy to offer an answer if I had any idea who Sean Fergesen is. > > Am I SUPPOSED to know of him? I believe he’s the subject of an [apocryphal story](http://forward.com/articles/12907/last-names-lost-in-translation-/). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/48 "2015-01-05T22:10:31Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > I believe he’s the subject of an [apocryphal story](http://forward.com/articles/12907/last-names-lost-in-translation-/). 😛 Looks like Sean had a friend named Ben Trovato. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/49 "2015-01-05T22:44:18Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > /I intend to keep asking this when apropos in a thread until someone responds appropriately… > [@John\_Bredin](#): > > I believe he’s the subject of an [apocryphal story](http://forward.com/articles/12907/last-names-lost-in-translation-/). 😛 If that’s not the appropriate response and you don’t have any better context for your question, it’s time to stop asking it. IMVVHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/50 "2015-01-06T04:07:41Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The staff there are among the pinnacle experts on US immigration history, regardless of the entry point. The trope about agents changing immigrant names bugs them a lot, specifically because it’s so false-to-fact. Also because it is, and always would have been, illegal on several levels. Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean it never happens. Also, as I have pointed out to you in the past, my paternal line’s name wasn’t _changed_. We _didn’t have_ a surname. I always chalked it up to a misunderstanding at the point of entry ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/51 "2015-01-06T04:54:22Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Well, I was at Columbia Univesity fromn 1979-83, a period when we were just starting to get large numbers of students from China. Most of them had “American” names, but these names were often somewhat old-fashioned and outdated (“Lydia Wong,” “Byron Chen,” et al). These names were not assigned by American professors- they were either assigned or selected back in China. > > Nobody in America TOLD these students to adopt English names. We would have TRIED to pronounce their Chinese names properly. Demonstrating yet again that one individuals experiences are not universal. I can assure you it did happen over and over again right in front of me and not by one professor but by the entire department and I saw the same thing at other universities. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/52 "2015-01-07T05:19:25Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I work in the Detroit area and have worked or dealt with numerous Japanese suppliers to the automotive industry and I’d say about half of the Japanese that come over take on an Americanized name. I’ve worked with many a Chuck, Dice, Mack, Joe, and Harry who have what most people (not me) would consider an unpronounceable name. Generally it’s the ones that don’t speak good enough english to properly communicate their ideas that take on these names as they are just basically trying to “get along” with the locals. > > I take advantage of this by referring to them in there proper Japanese-san when speaking to them one on one or in a formal group setting with their peers. That way they know I’m not just one of the crowd. Dice and Joe seem like shortenings of pretty normal Japanese names. ---
**Author:** ![yo\_han\_go](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yo_han_go/32/130_2.png) [@yo\_han\_go](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_han_go)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/53 "2015-01-07T11:41:28Z")
My cousin just married nice man named Leboe. Nice move for Ukrainian guy used to be Lebov who just moved to Canada. OTOH. My name is so unpronounceable for English (and most other) speaker, that even if i change it to something that could be pronounce more or less correctly, would still brake so many facial bones, that it would not be practical. So if ever move to some English speaking country I’d literally forced to change it into something more reasonable. Like Mat Strangeman or something similar would do. Anecdote. I did publish couple of books for English market and there I use my real name (just without circumflexes). So i do get a phone call now and then from over the sea and it usualy goes something like that: “Hello, can I speak with Matgheeskooch Streeshueenikar?” “That would be me. I guess. Or hope.” “No really, how do you pronounce it?” “Mathoozheeyam Shtreemantzaroohzweem.” “Can I call you Mat?” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/54 "2015-01-07T13:23:46Z")
On a related note about problematic names - when I was studying Irish Gaelic it turns out that my first name sounds like something unflattering in Gaelic (not obscene, but negative in meaning). So my classroom name was “Siobhann”. Sometimes, a name doesn’t translate well. In which case considering a change is entirely reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/55 "2015-01-07T15:07:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > On a related note about problematic names - when I was studying Irish Gaelic it turns out that my first name sounds like something unflattering in Gaelic (not obscene, but negative in meaning). So my classroom name was “Siobhann”. > > Sometimes, a name doesn’t translate well. In which case considering a change is entirely reasonable. As was the case with the Vietnamese girl I knew who changed her name to Carrie. Her Vietnamese name was pronounced “Yoon,” spelled “Dung.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/56 "2015-01-07T15:36:49Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > As was the case with the Vietnamese girl I knew who changed her name to Carrie. Her Vietnamese name was pronounced “Yoon,” spelled “Dung.” Not to mention the many Vietnamese with the name “Phuc,” which is pronounced exactly like it looks back in the motherland but scrupulously turned to “foook” here. I can’t imagine how it goes over in Ireland. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Milton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@Mr.Milton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Milton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/57 "2015-01-07T16:57:08Z")
For a fact, names were being changed (Americanized) by the US Military ias late as the late 40’s and 50’s. Pronounciations as well. “German” ch’s changed to ck’s, as the Marines did to my Missouri-German father when he enlisted. My uncle who did not enter the service has the orginnal ch spelling of the family name. I believe his uncle with the same last name (of course) also had this happen when he entered the US Army Air Force in WW2. A freind who has since passed entered the Navy in 1956. He was oringinally from New Jersey, IIRC. His last name was Laux, correctly pronounced sort of like “Low”, but was told in no uncertian terms his name was now pronounced “Lux”. OTOH, many German names were forcibly changed during WW1. My Missouri born grandfather was given a first and middle German-type name --which you would have expected in a (then) predominantly German speaking area of the country: Wilhelm Heinrich. The schools (IIRC) decided unileterally that this was unbefitting an American, and he came home one day as William Henry, though at that time no one thought his last name needed to have its ch changed to ck. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838/58 "2015-01-07T20:30:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not to mention the many Vietnamese with the name “Phuc,” which is pronounced exactly like it looks back in the motherland but scrupulously turned to “foook” here. > > I can’t imagine how it goes over in Ireland. 🙂 Of course, many Jewish immigrants have had names like Fuchs and Schitz. Many of those named Fuchs changed their names to Fox. One guy named Ralph Liffschitz changed his name to Laurent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-pressure-on-immigrants-to-americanize-their-names-even-in-the-1950s-on/708838.md?page=2)