# Was there a lot of racism directed towards Desi Arnaz? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 10, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343 "2013-04-10T18:14:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/61 "2013-04-12T12:29:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > For example the military wasn’t integrated until 1948. Hispanics were never segregated in the military. When Texas had segregated schools, Mexican-American kids were usually considered white. I lived in an unincorporated area but attended a school district “owned” by a “sundown” community; any blacks were only passing through & had better be gone before dark, if they knew what was good for them. (I didn’t realize this is at the time & my own family was fairly liberal; I repeated the n-word one time at home & Grandma convinced me never to do it again. Ever.) But I had Mexican-American classmates; they were the only other Catholics until the Fontenots moved in from Louisiana. (The district has some African-Americans now and an assortment of Asians; the Hispanic/Latino minority is now the majority.) Of course there was prejudice; mostly Mexican-American schools & districts were poorly funded. But they were better off than the blacks. (I remember\* Lucy\*–we watched because she was funny & I never heard a word against Desi’s ethnicity–which was obvious. Of course, there could have been comments in other homes (or trailers) in that community.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/62 "2013-04-12T13:21:28Z")
So when they dubbed _I Love Lucy_ into Spanish, does anybody know if Desi dubbed his own dialogue? Or if they dubbed his Spanish rants into Spanish with the voice actor’s voice? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/63 "2013-04-12T13:52:09Z")
Years ago, I worked on a project going over the records of World War II veterans in south Texas, most of whom were Hispanic. Out of a couple of hundred sets of enlistment papers I looked at, only two or three listed their race as “Mexican” or “Spanish.” The rest had them down as “White.” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/64 "2013-04-12T14:02:02Z")
Hispanic (or Mexican, Spanish, Latino, etc.) is not a Race. The modern method for recording that sort of data asks about Ethnicity (Hispanic or non-), then Race (pick one or many from a very long list). When I was a kid, a Mexican-American family lived down the lane. One grandmother was delicate, pale & very European. The other was dark, solidly built, with a long braid down her back. She ground the family corn on a\* metate\*, just like the lady painted by Diego Rivera. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/65 "2013-04-12T15:46:08Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > So when they dubbed _I Love Lucy_ into Spanish, does anybody know if Desi dubbed his own dialogue? Or if they dubbed his Spanish rants into Spanish with the voice actor’s voice? Apparently, in the episode where his relatives come from Cuba, Desi Arnez flubs some of his lines when he speaks to them. Someone really good at the Cuban flavor of Spanish should view the episode and report back. I always wondered if Desi was just rushed in the live performance, adding to the confusion of the scene for the Lucy character by being obfuscating for everyone, or had actually forgotten how to speak Cuban. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/66 "2013-04-12T16:20:48Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > …or had actually forgotten how to speak Cuban. Perhaps not forgotten, but maybe he had no experience memorizing and reciting lines in Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![shilohbleu712](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@shilohbleu712](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shilohbleu712)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/67 "2013-10-18T22:45:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In some episode of I Love Lucy, Arnez calls a 40 year old Black Conductor “Boy”. :rolleyes: I saw that episode and never once heard Desi call him that. So, I’m wondering, what did you see that I missed?😕 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/68 "2013-10-18T23:08:42Z")
> [@shilohbleu712](#): > > I saw that episode and never once heard Desi call him that. So, I’m wondering, what did you see that I missed?😕 Apparently his saying, “Hey, Boy!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![shilohbleu712](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@shilohbleu712](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shilohbleu712)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/69 "2013-10-18T23:26:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > John McGraw tried to pass off a black baseball player as “Cuban” to break the color line, and there were[Cuban baseball players](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolf_Luque) in baseball long before the color line was broken. Cubans were just not the target of racism the way Blacks were. You say that like there is no such thing as Black Cubans. What difference would it have made if he were Cuban? He still was Black. Cubans come in both Black and White and mixtures of the 2. There may have even been indigenous peoples living there before the Spaniards invaded it and brought the Black people there for slavery (Trans-Atlantic slavery). So Cubans are mixtures of native/indigenous peoples, Blacks, and Spanish-speaking Whites. Blacks are/have ALWAYS been the target of racism far more than any other races on this earth just because of their skin complexion. And as for those Cubans who never was targeted by racism, it’s only because their skin was “White enough” so that they could easily blend in with White society thus not having to deal with racism. There have even been very pale-skinned Black people who chose to blend in with this White racist society just as a protection to themselves; to keep from having to experience racism. That one drop of Black blood rule slave owners made up applied to even the palest-skinned Black folk)But their skin was that pale whereas they could get away with it. To me, Desi Arnez was a White guy(White Hispanic). Yes, there were some White racist idiots who may not have seen Desi as White like them, solely because he lived in Cuba. Their ignorance led them to believe no Cuban could ever be White just because they were from Cuba. They were ignorant (like racist people tend to be anyway). ---
**Author:** ![shilohbleu712](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@shilohbleu712](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shilohbleu712)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/70 "2013-10-18T23:36:44Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > John McGraw tried to pass off a black baseball player as “Cuban” to break the color line, and there were[Cuban baseball players](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolf_Luque) in baseball long before the color line was broken. Cubans were just not the target of racism the way Blacks were. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > John McGraw tried to pass off a black baseball player as “Cuban” to break the color line, and there were[Cuban baseball players](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolf_Luque) in baseball long before the color line was broken. Cubans were just not the target of racism the way Blacks were. You say that like there is no such thing as Black Cubans. What difference would it have made if he were Cuban? He still was Black. Cubans come in both Black and White and mixtures of the 2. There may have even been indigenous peoples living there before the Spaniards invaded it and brought the Black people there for slavery (Trans-Atlantic slavery). So Cubans are mixtures of native/indigenous peoples, Blacks, and Spanish-speaking Whites. Blacks are/have ALWAYS been the target of racism far more than any other races on this earth just because of their skin complexion. And as for those Cubans who never was targeted by racism, it’s only because their skin was “White enough” so that they could easily blend in with White society thus not having to deal with racism. There have even been very pale-skinned Black people who chose to blend in with this White racist society just as a protection to themselves; to keep from having to experience racism. That one drop of Black blood rule slave owners made up applied to even the palest-skinned Black folk). But their skin was that pale whereas they could get away with it. To me, Desi Arnez was a White guy(White Hispanic). Now he may have had Black ancestors but his skin complexion was so White that, well, he considered himself to be a White Hispanic. Yes, there were some White racist idiots who may not have seen Desi as White like them, solely because he lived in Cuba. Their ignorance led them to believe no Cuban could ever be White just because they were from Cuba. They were ignorant (like racist people tend to be anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/71 "2013-10-19T01:43:35Z")
Weren’t there also people in the 1970s and 1980s who tended to dismiss Arnaz as a mediocre conga playing night club performer who got lucky? I remember a Lucille Ball interview with Barbara Walters where Lucy explained how much Desi had to do with the show’s success. I think now we are more aware of his contributions There were a lot one reasons why Ball’s mid 1980s tv show failed but one factor was Arnaz was dying from cancer. He would sometimes call Lucy at night and beg her to forgive him for cheating on her. She would break down crying, not get any sleep and her performance would suffer. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/72 "2013-10-19T02:57:43Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > I remember a Lucille Ball interview with Barbara Walters where Lucy explained how much Desi had to do with the show’s success. I think now we are more aware of his contributions I’ve read that she left him because you had to talk to him before noon lest he was too much into his cups to discuss decisions. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/73 "2013-10-19T02:59:26Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > He would sometimes call Lucy at night and beg her to forgive him for cheating on her. She would break down crying, not get any sleep and her performance would suffer. I am terribly sorry, but I cannot resist: “Hey, Lucy, I got some ‘spainin’ to do!” ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/74 "2013-10-19T08:40:32Z")
You don’t understand how superficial racism in the US was. As long as you looked white, you were white. Rudolph Valentino was an Italian immigrant. Daniel Inouye, when he was stationed in the south for army training, was told to use the white person’s water fountain. Jim Thorpe, part cherokee, was wholeheartedly accepted as white. ---
**Author:** ![Whitney\_Harper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@Whitney\_Harper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whitney_Harper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/75 "2013-10-19T10:55:10Z")
I don’t know, but probably since he was married to Lucille Ball, that gave him a step-up before he became established. I have seen the “I Love Lucy” episodes over 50 times over the years, and it has been one of the greatest joys of my life. I’ve read that Desi Arnaz cast Fred and Ethel. It was great casting, and sometimes shows cast with professional casting directors are not well cast. In addition, you could sense that there was a true connection between Lucy and Ricky on the show. It was just a terrific show from the writing to the acting. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/76 "2013-10-19T12:49:58Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Hispanics weren’t really considered a seperate “racial” category in the '50s, at least outside of Texas & the Southwest. In most official documents from that time and earlier, there were mainly 3 categories. You were either white, black or mulatto. In the US census, and school census records (at least in Texas) hispanics were considered white. Offhand, I don’t recall seeing any other designations like Asian, Indian or the like. I’m sure some of the records do break down the racial categories like this. I just haven’t come across any yet that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/77 "2013-10-19T14:31:23Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Weren’t there also people in the 1970s and 1980s who tended to dismiss Arnaz as a mediocre conga playing night club performer who got lucky? I remember a Lucille Ball interview with Barbara Walters where Lucy explained how much Desi had to do with the show’s success. I think now we are more aware of his contributions Desi has been credited with a lot of innovations about how television shows are filmed. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/78 "2013-10-19T15:58:22Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/79 "2013-10-19T16:05:10Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Luuuuucy, you got some ‘splainin’ to do! [The famous catchphrase that Ricky never said](http://http://www.quotecounterquote.com/2011/05/lucy-you-got-some-splainin-to-do.html) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343/80 "2013-10-19T16:19:44Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Desi has been credited with a lot of innovations about how television shows are filmed. Yes. Before ILL they were all one camera shoots. Desi was responsible for 2 and 3 camera shooting. Which made it more enjoyable for live audiences and reduced production time (lots of crew getting paid by the hour). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-lot-of-racism-directed-towards-desi-arnaz/655343.md?page=5)