# Was there a seriously intense-water-cooler-these are-my theories-show before **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [February 14, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874 "2021-02-14T05:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/21 "2021-02-14T20:06:33Z")
I’m not married to this position. I lived in a college town when _Twin Peaks_ was on, so probably more people were watching that show in that town than ever watched _Dallas_. I don’t have my fingers on the pulse of the country, though. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/22 "2021-02-14T20:21:28Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > I think you’re remembering incorrectly. While Twin Peaks was a critical darling and had a rabid fan base, it was a little bit too weird for most people and the media landscape had begun fracturing (nothing compared to now - but there was cable.) > > The Dallas episode where they revealed “Who Shot JR” had a 76 share - 83 million people watched it. ([cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_shot_J.R.%3F#:~:text=%22Who%20Done%20It%3F%22%20was,in%20that%20year's%20presidential%20election.)) In contrast - Twin Peaks never made it above about 35 million viewers. ([cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Twin_Peaks_episodes)) Yeah, I think that’s about right. _Twin Peaks_ started out with a lot of critical fanfare and had an early cult following but it was just too weird for most viewers, and even the critics ended up largely abandoning it as too opaque and aimless. It didn’t help that David Lynch himself had no real interest in ‘solving’ the murder of Laura Palmer; he was looking to make an surrealistic horror/fantasy drama that was an exploration of the American Gothic themes of social disconnectedness, petty corruption, and sexual deviance combined with Lynch’s trademark idiosyncratic absurdist humor. Framing it as murder mystery allowed Lynch and Frost to make an elevator pitch out of it but Lynch apparently lost interest pretty early on when it was clear that the limitations of network television weren’t going to let him go off into _Blue Velvet_ territory. The show’s audience dwindled even during the first series, and the fell off a cliff as the central mystery wasn’t revealed until the middle of the second series, by which time ratings were so poor it was never given consideration for renewal. _Dallas_, on the other hand, was a pretty standard issue prime time soap opera elevated by the utter ruthlessness and amorality of several of the characters and particularly the aforementioned J.R. Ewing (the sociopathy of which would not be equalled until the short-lived 1996 _Profit_). It was pretty easy to follow as the plotting primarily consisted of the standard tropes of people sleeping around with each other, seeking to undermine each others success in business and love, et cetera. The “Who Shot J.R.?” plotline was notable for the unexpected grievous wounding of a major character but as a program it was already a highly viewed show with a popular following. I would agree that people didn’t go to “gatherings” to watch it, but then, such initial enthusiasm didn’t sustain _Twin Peaks_ for even the season-and-a-half of the initial run while _Dallas_ was on for twelve seasons, all but the last couple as a consistently top ranked show in its time slot. FWIW, I personally think _Twin Peaks_ was a more interesting show and arguably had more influence on the direction of modern atmospheric television programming with metaphorical themes and offbeat humor–certainly shows like _The Sopranos_, _Mad Men_, and _Breaking Bad_ all owe acknowledgement to _Twin Peaks_ for breaking the standard mold of what could be done in the medium of television, while _Dallas_ later became kind of the punchline for the “It was all a dream” trope for reversing a prominent character death when Patrick Duffy decided to return–but it is pretty incontrovertible that in their respective times, _Dallas_ had far more consistent viewership and the “Who Killed J.R.?” plotline generated an ample year’s worth of (mostly pointless) discussion and theorizing, while the viewing public mostly gave up on _Twin Peaks_ before its first abbreviated season was even completed. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/23 "2021-02-14T21:02:35Z")
Guys I think we forgot the most obvious one happening right now on this board: Wandavision ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/24 "2021-02-14T21:05:53Z")
Though, the OP was asking about shows that accomplished that level of conversation prior to _Lost_ and _Battlestar Galactica_ – so, in other words, prior to around 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/25 "2021-02-14T21:13:28Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Heroes Heroes started in 2006, while Lost started in 2004. And as for “Who Shot J.R.?”, we went to London that summer, and seemingly everyone we met asked us about it. I think they were a few episodes behind. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/26 "2021-02-14T21:44:32Z")
Ah true. Missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/27 "2021-02-14T21:55:53Z")
Yeah, I missed that the lead sentence was a carryover of the title, I thought it was just an example the OP was throwing out there. 😐 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/28 "2021-02-14T22:01:48Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > There were some T-shirts and even a novelty song about “Who shot JR?” but all-in-all, it didn’t generate what _Twin Peaks_ did. [And a table top RPG.](https://somethingpositive.net/comic/but-why-2/) ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/29 "2021-02-14T22:13:00Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > And getting together and watching _Twin Peaks_ as a group was a thing. We had 6 or 7 people watching at my place. I furnished the coffee, the others took turns bringing pie. Those were the only watching parties I ever had until Game of Thrones, but we didn’t have accessories for those. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/30 "2021-02-14T22:28:58Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > the others took turns bringing pie Cherry pie. [Damn fine cherry pie](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062495550?tag=amz-mkt-fox-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-dsk00-nomod-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/31 "2021-02-15T03:29:35Z")
We had watch parties for _Dallas_, for what was basically a soap opera turned up to 11, it had a viewership that was both large and fanatic. _M_A_S_H\* had a lot of water-cooler theorizing for its finale. We knew the episode would be TV movie-length, and we obviously knew the war would end. But there was a lot of speculation that one of the main characters would die, that Hawkeye and Margaret would end up together, that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/32 "2021-02-15T19:50:36Z")
I imagine the majority here is far too young to remember “Peyton Place (1964-69),” but it was huge! It was the first bona-fide prime time soap opera, and launched the careers of Mia Farrow and Ryan O’Neal. It aired in half-hour episodes twice a week, and it was all anyone could talk about, especially the first two season when Mia Farrow was on it! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/33 "2021-02-15T20:03:07Z")
> [@Labdad](#): > > I imagine the majority here is far too young to remember “Peyton Place (1964-69),” but it was huge! It was the first bona-fide prime time soap opera, and launched the careers of Mia Farrow and Ryan O’Neal. Good call. It was before my time but it was enough of a pop culture phenomenon to be referenced on _Mad Men_, and its plotlines were certainly pretty scandalous for its time. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/34 "2021-02-15T20:55:29Z")
Luke and Laura’s wedding on **General Hospital** was in 1981, but it was the culmination of a few years of edgy storylines that ending up capturing a huge audience, far outside the normal soap opera crowd. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/35 "2021-02-16T19:12:33Z")
I seem to recall theories about what’s going on in _The Prisoner_ posted here as early as 2001. I’m willing to bet it was discussed even before that. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/36 "2021-02-16T23:01:29Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > and there could have been a sort of backlash that stopped people watching altogether. I know I quit then. Didn’t watch the revival, didn’t watch Lost, either, because of Twin Peaks. And I’m still waiting to know what’s up with the fish in the percolator! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/37 "2021-02-17T06:21:30Z")
I re-watched _Twin Peaks_ around the time of the revival, and I was struck by how much of a primetime soap the show actually was. Sure, there was some weird stuff, but there was a lot more boring business intrigue, soapy romantic shenanigans, and the least convincing “teenagers” in television history. It was much closer to _Dynasty_ than it was to today’s high-concept TV shows. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874/38 "2021-02-17T06:25:20Z")
Your last sentence can be summed up this way: It was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-seriously-intense-water-cooler-these-are-my-theories-show-before/932874.md?page=1)