# Was There A Way To Get Heat In Stagecoaches In Winter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210 "2014-04-03T00:43:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/21 "2014-04-03T12:01:03Z")
I thought I would have a look at the English system of stage coaches: [http://www.gail-thornton.co.uk/gail/horse-drawn-vehicles.php](http://www.gail-thornton.co.uk/gail/horse-drawn-vehicles.php) > [@](#): > > The first passenger vehicles were in regular use by the end of the 15th Century, though it was not really until the 1600s that the demand for coaches brought about the great improvements to the basic design in relation to shape, weight and suspension. The stage waggon was the predecessor of all public vehicles, however it was slow, covering as little as two miles per hour on average and in addition was uncomfortable, as it was un-sprung. On the positive side, it was inexpensive and available to the majority of people. It was drawn by four, six or even eight horses, seating up to 20 passengers plus their luggage. Driven by waggoners, the stage waggon was colloquially known as the ‘snail of the highway’ and the name ‘stage’ was acquired due to need for horses to be changed at regular intervals along the route. Stage waggons helped make passenger transport more socially acceptable and did away with the old idea that to travel in a vehicle rather than on horseback was degenerative, effeminate and even lazy. It was not until the royal patronage of Elizabeth I that the acceptance of carriages began to gain real momentum. > > An unwieldy postillion driven coach was in use by 1663 that had interior seating as well as seats on the outside. The exterior seats faced sideways with the passengers legs handing over the doorway, and as this position was so uncomfortable their legs and feet were fitted into boxes commonly called ‘boots’. It is from this that the term ‘boot’ was derived in reference to the area of a car with space for putting things in. The passengers using these seats were mostly those of low rank. A postillion driven coach had no coachman but a rider seated upon the near side horse who was hopefully in control of the team of horses. I have done some searching and I can find no mention of coaches having any form of heating. Indeed, rail coaches were not heated either at first, and neither were early motor cars. Most of the passengers were outside anyway, with up to 12 (or more) on top and four inside. The inside passengers paid more and in winter it is quite possible that they might bring a hot water bottle under their clothes. For the most part, they just wrapped up as well as they could. Thinking about it, any form of stove inside the coach would have been very unpleasant from fumes and smoke, as well as a considerable fire hazard. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/22 "2014-04-03T12:52:33Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > They were called “stagecoaches” because they traveled in stages, i.e., stopped at a way station after a day’s travel so everyone could get a meal and a decent night’s sleep. In Roughing It, Mark Twain describes trying to sleep while his stagecoach travelled by night. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/23 "2014-04-03T15:34:00Z")
Horses have significantly better night vision than do humans, so traveling at night seems like a fairly reasonable notion even in the unlit wilderness. I think most drivers learned that if your team does not want to do it, you are I’ll-advised to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/24 "2014-04-03T15:57:41Z")
I had the impression that instead of blankets, they used furs. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/25 "2014-04-03T16:26:13Z")
Not a stagecoach, but I rode an old, heritage train [1905 Prairie Dog Central](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_Dog_Central_Railway) one year in the very early spring. It was quite chilly on the train, but they did have little metal containers for hot coals under/near some of the seats for thw winter, which were not lit for this trip. I asked about them and they said they definitely lit them for their winter/Christmas trips. Maybe something similar to that? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/26 "2014-04-03T18:08:50Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > In Roughing It, Mark Twain describes trying to sleep while his stagecoach travelled by night. Yes, Sam gives a great description: > **[Riding The Overland Stage, 1861](http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/stage.htm)** > > Eyewitness account of riding the overland stage, 1861. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/27 "2014-04-03T20:10:18Z")
[The rules Wells Fargo posted](http://www.deadwoodmagazine.com/archivedsite/Archives/Stage.htm)in their stagecoaches in the 1880’s, under Number 4: > [@](#): > > 1. > > ``` > Abstinence from liquor is requested, but if you must drink, share the bottle. To do otherwise makes you appear selfish and unneighborly. > > ``` > > 2. > > ``` > If ladies are present, gentlemen are urged to forego smoking cigars and pipes as the odor of same is repugnant to the Gentle Sex. Chewing tobacco is permitted but spit WITH the wind, not against it. > > ``` > > 3. > > ``` > Gentlemen must refrain from the use of rough language in the presence of ladies and children. > > ``` > > 4. > > ``` > Buffalo robes are provided for your comfort during cold weather. Hogging robes will not be tolerated and the offender will be made to ride with the driver. > > ``` > > 5. > > ``` > Don’t snore loudly while sleeping or use your fellow passenger’s shoulder for a pillow; he or she may not understand and friction may result. > > ``` > > 6. > > ``` > Firearms may be kept on your person for use in emergencies. Do not fire them for pleasure or shoot at wild animals as the sound riles the horses. > > ``` > > 7. > > ``` > In the event of runaway horses, remain calm. Leaping from the coach in panic will leave you injured, at the mercy of the elements, hostile Indians and hungry coyotes. > > ``` > > 8. > > ``` > Forbidden topics of discussion are stagecoach robberies and Indian uprisings. > > ``` > > 9. > > ``` > Gents guilty of unchivalrous behavior toward lady passengers will be put off the stage. It’s a long walk back. A word to the wise is sufficient. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/28 "2014-04-04T07:34:51Z")
[QUOTE=usedtobe] If you can get to San Francisco, see 410 Montgomery. (again, see user name). This is Wells Fargo’s old HQ. There are two authentic coaches on the first floor, and, if still open and available to public, a mezzanine display with a model of a coach (much easier to see the detail) along with the story behind them. [/QUOTE] The current headquarters are still at 420 Montgomery, and that’s home to only one of several Wells Fargo [museums](https://www.wellsfargo.com/about/museum_info). If you haven’t been recently, it was remodeled a couple of months ago. Traveling by stagecoach was slow and expensive. I saw something there today that said the fare from San Francisco to (IIRC) St. Louis was $200 back in 1850 or so, or around $6000 in today’s dollars, and for that price, you bounced along at an average of five miles per hours or 60-70 miles per day. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/29 "2014-04-04T15:10:00Z")
I wonder why they never thought to use the exhaust from the horses… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/30 "2014-04-04T15:21:53Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I wonder why they never thought to use the exhaust from the horses… Bravo! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sandyjeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sandyjeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandyjeanie)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/31 "2015-10-14T14:50:20Z")
I once read something that someone from the days of stagecoach travel had written. She was describing travel in a stagecoach during cold weather. She talked about how wonderful the drivers were because they passed out very heavy (and brand new) horse blankets to each passenger. Plus, each passenger was given a heated rock in a rolled blanket for warmth. Also, a metal bucket filled with heated rocks was placed inside the stage & passengers could switch to a warmer rock when theirs became cold. She also mentioned that at each stagecoach stop, the driver would bring the passengers brand new heated rocks, and a fresh bucket of hot rocks. The cooled off rocks & bucket would be returned to the stagecoach stop, to be heated for the next set of passengers arriving by stage. I had to laugh because the writer commented on how she expected travel in cold weather to be much more of a hardship. But, she said that due to the attentive drivers, the trip was actually quite pleasant. I doubt that modern day travellers would find the trip pleasant, and that’s what made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/32 "2015-10-14T15:51:39Z")
If one has the time, a careful reading of the works of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky will probably shed light on Russian practice, which would no doubt have been a model for much kinder conditions in the American west. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/33 "2015-10-14T16:39:16Z")
I was under the impression that the travelers had to get out and walk in hilly terrain. That would warm them up. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/34 "2015-10-14T17:19:22Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone, somewhere had his own coach constructed with a space for a brazier of coals, or at least heated irons or stones. Louis XVI of France reportedly had a wine cellar (!) in his private coach. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/35 "2015-10-14T18:10:09Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I was under the impression that the travelers had to get out and walk in hilly terrain. That would warm them up. Or sandy. Read Mark Twain’s _“Roughing It.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/36 "2015-10-15T15:10:13Z")
A friend has an apparently antique heater he claims was intended for horse drawn sleighs. He bought it to use in a motorcycle sidecar. It is an ornate cast iron grillwork box containing a gimble mounted oil lamp. His understanding was that whale oil was the intended fuel. AFAIK he has never used it. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/37 "2015-10-15T18:30:33Z")
They could light the coach itself. “Light a man a fire and he’ll stay warm all night. Light a man **on** fire and he’ll stay warm the rest of his life.” ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/38 "2015-10-15T22:25:59Z")
Here is a page about foot-warmers, some of them described as American; > **[Foot warmers: hot coals, hot water](https://homethingspast.com/2012/04/25/foot-warmers/)** > > Ceramic hot water bottles were common in the 19th and early 20th centuries. As well as filling hot water containers to warm your bed, you could buy earthenware bottles to use as foot warmers or han… for the most part these were used in the unheated railway carriages of the time, but something similar may have been used in stagecoaches. I’m particularly intrigued by this chemical footwarmer [http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/insidethecollection/2012/04/steamfest-2012-mystery-object-revealed/](http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/insidethecollection/2012/04/steamfest-2012-mystery-object-revealed/) > [@](#): > > McLaren patent foot warmers like this one were placed on the floor of railway carriages all around Australia to provide a little passenger comfort before carriage heating. The rectangular steel container worked a bit like a hot water bottle but instead of water contains 6½ kg of loosely-packed salt crystals, crystalline hydrated sodium acetate. It was a by-product of the wine-making industry. After the foot warmer was heated in a furnace of boiling water for about 1¼ hours the crystals in the container became liquid. There was a whole infrastructure set up at stations for the daily heating of foot warmers in special furnaces. In Victoria alone in 1935 there were 33 heating works. There are still the remains of one at Mudgee in NSW. As the contents slowly cooled it recrystallised and actually generated heat for between 8 to 10 hours. - Invented in 1880, I had heard of such things but had no idea how they worked. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210/39 "2015-10-15T22:58:17Z")
The description matches that of re-usable chemical ones that are still used today: [Heating pad - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heating_pad) Basically the only change is the addition of the metal disk inside to trigger the reaction. They’re not as large as the ones described, I don’t think. They’re hand-held, about palm sized. Often sold as massage accessories or as, ahem, “novelties” nowadays. I had a couple of little heart-shaped ones that each lasted for a good solid hour of noticeable warmth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-a-way-to-get-heat-in-stagecoaches-in-winter/685210.md?page=1)